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Show HN: HTML for People

htmlforpeople.com

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Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#141

Post by thejohnconway »

simonw wrote: post #58
asoneth wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The decision to skip CSS by depending on https://simplecss.org/ is smart I was always a little disappointed with how most web browsers choose to render HTML pages that had no explicit styling information. I'm not necessarily saying web browsers should have defaults as opinionated as simple.css, but the default page margins, padding, text styles, headings, etc that they picked aren't particularly attractive. Opinion…

That's a historic artifact. If a browser shipped new default CSS today it would break 30+ years of existing web pages.

They should have brought in nicer rendering with one of the HTML versions, or with a flag.

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#142

Post by darkdrog »

this is a great tutorial even for experienced programmers, many of them even don't understand the nature of website behind the coding , but this tutorial leads a wise way to illustrate this concept

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#143

Post by mr_toad »

username135 wrote: post #20
MathMonkeyMan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad was asking me a question about backing something up onto Google Drive, or saving space on some cloud storage account, or something. He was using the mental model of files and folders -- that files exist and refer to stored bytes, and that there can be one or several copies of a file. There can be links to a file that take very little space relative to the file. I had to tell him that I have no idea what sort o…

Can you elaborate on what you told your father? When i use google drive, the interface appears to be folder/file structure. Whether it is or is made to look that way is irrelevant, i suppose, as long as it works that way. I can also increase storage by downloading/deleting things so Im a bit flummoxed.

> the interface appears to be folder/file structure

It might look that way, but it doesn’t have the same features.

https://aws.amazon.com/compare/the-difference-between-block-...

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#144

Post by mr_toad »

bo1024 wrote: post #69
giobox wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try not to get overly-annoyed at this kind of thing too, but to me it just demonstrates an incredible lack of self-drive, or curiosity, especially in the CS domain. If the students are genuinely curious, there is nothing to stop them learning about pretty much any topic in CS - really. There are few university subjects where the entire syllabus is freely available online in almost every format imaginable the way CS…

Are you sure they have a computer (i.e. something with a keyboard and a filesystem that it is possible to write and run programs on) at home?

Computers existed before keyboards and filesystems, and likely they will continue to exist after both are obsolete.

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#145

Post by jraph »

eviks wrote: post #110
jraph wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to learn WYSIWYG "codes" and "language" too. It's just that you probably already did so. "Select, then click on the B button to make it bold", or "click B, type, then click B again" is probably not straightforward at first. I don't know why people shouldn't be exposed to markup. I also don't see how HTML is a poor format. It has its issues but fundamentally? Seems fine. It's cool someone tries to make it rea…

First, it's not a "just", but a huge benefit for the audience of "everyone" Second, it's much more straightforward vs any tags (and remembering having to close them without any help in your plain text editor) And is also much more discoverable in the intuitive interface with the full list of available styles right there with styled buttons so you don't need to think whether is underline, underscore, or something else…

> Not unless he misleads them

and

> trivialization of the effort required

I don't believe this is what's happening though.

Yes, that most people already know WYSIWYG has value, of course. And it takes effort to learn. But people can see for themselves if it's for them. Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. Most likely, people even starting to read this are probably ones who are already a bit curious or interested in this.

This is for people would could be thinking "HTML is code, it's impossible for me" when really they can understand and like. This things tells them "look, it might not be as complicated as you might be thinking. Try and see for yourself".

I don't see the drawback of doing this actually. I don't see the harm. However, I see value in making people realize that computers are not magic and that they can leverage them in other ways, and putting such tools within their reach.

So yeah, maybe not anybody, but probably many more people than one could think (professional or not).

It's also easy to underestimate people (ourselves included) and to think code like HTML is too complicated to understand for most people. It's actually not. Most people would understand the basics quite easily and making them realize this is quite nice.

What do you have so special that you could learn HTML? Nothing, actually. And it is quite important to be aware of this.

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#146

Post by eviks »

jraph wrote: post #145
eviks wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, it's not a "just", but a huge benefit for the audience of "everyone" Second, it's much more straightforward vs any tags (and remembering having to close them without any help in your plain text editor) And is also much more discoverable in the intuitive interface with the full list of available styles right there with styled buttons so you don't need to think whether is underline, underscore, or something else…

> Not unless he misleads them and > trivialization of the effort required I don't believe this is what's happening though. Yes, that most people already know WYSIWYG has value, of course. And it takes effort to learn. But people can see for themselves if it's for them. Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. Most likely, people even starting to read this are probably ones who are already a bit curious or interested…

> So yeah, maybe not anybody

So don't make misleading claims it is for anybody

People can see for themselves, but if they're not mislead they can see it earlier without wasting time. Do you see time waste as a drawback?

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#147

Post by jraph »

eviks wrote: post #146
jraph wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not unless he misleads them and > trivialization of the effort required I don't believe this is what's happening though. Yes, that most people already know WYSIWYG has value, of course. And it takes effort to learn. But people can see for themselves if it's for them. Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. Most likely, people even starting to read this are probably ones who are already a bit curious or interested…

> So yeah, maybe not anybody So don't make misleading claims it is for anybody People can see for themselves, but if they're not mislead they can see it earlier without wasting time. Do you see time waste as a drawback?

Anything can be seen as wasting time. Why this particularly?

Life is a huge waste of time.

> So don't make misleading claims it is for anybody

Nothing is for literally anybody.

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#148

Post by GoblinSlayer »

simonw wrote: post #8

This is great. The decision to skip CSS by depending on https://simplecss.org/ is smart - CSS is a whole other thing, and having that on top of basic HTML would be pretty intimidating. I did worry a bit about https://htmlforpeople.com/zero-to-internet-your-first-websit... - "Step 1. Create a folder on your computer" - because apparently a large number of people these days don't understand files and folders at all! ht…

It's not a problem, consumers won't even edit a wiki, that's just what consumers are.

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#149

Post by lemonberry »

This is great, but most people don't care about coding or building their websites for scratch. Most people don't work on their own cars. Authors don't bind their own books.

People want to share their thoughts, stories, and photos. In my opinion, we need better tools to allow people to create their own sites without needing to code.

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#150

Post by networked »

jimbosis wrote: post #15

I plan to dig in deeper, but this looks like a great introduction to building websites. I teach a one semester high school Web Design class and currently use a mixture of lessons from these two for learning the basics of making pages by hand with HTML and CSS: https://internetingishard.netlify.app/ https://www.washington.edu/accesscomputing/webd2/student/ind... This looks very promising and could supplant or at the v…

I have to say, for me, https://internetingishard.netlify.app has uncomfortably pale body text. It is #5d6063 on an #fdfdfe background where I sampled it. (The background is `linear-gradient(0deg,#f9fafb 0,#fff)`.) The serif typeface looks too thin on a low-res display.

https://paste.dbohdan.com/internetingishard.netlify.app.1728...

I think that if you want to lower the contrast of a dark-on-light page—well, first, don't lower it too much [1], but second, it is better to make the background darker than the text lighter. Avoid thin faded text.

Here is a minimal edit to the page:

https://paste.dbohdan.com/internetingishard.netlify.app-edit...

This is #333 on an #f9f9f9 background (without the gradient to simplify things and with no change to the headings). I find it more pleasant to read.

[1] https://contrastrebellion.com/

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