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Show HN: HTML for People

htmlforpeople.com

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Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#51

Post by mckn1ght »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #30
_lvbh wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crazy how bad the mobile epidemic has gotten. There are kids coming into a Computer Science degree that can't figure out how to unzip a zip or even finding out where files get downloaded to. (Fwiw, those I know dropped out before 2nd year)

At one point, every member of a CS program started without having ever seen or touched a computer. Everyone has to start somewhere. We do not reject new biology majors because they had never touched a microscope before entering the program.

Sure, but I think the typical path for those who survive and strive in a CS program is to have touched a computer for the first time well before starting work on a college degree for it.

That's like trying to learn a foreign language by picking reading War and Peace in that language, without ever having seen a single translation to that language, or having already read War and Peace in your own. There are a lot of steps you need to take before then.

I would also be pretty surprised if a biology undergrad had never touched a microscope, possibly with the exception of the most impoverished among us. I imagine most people have tried one at some point along the K-12 journey, and there are more introductory treatments of e.g. life science on the way as well.

Starting CS without having "seen or touched" a computer would be like a biology undergrad who wouldn't be able to tell you whether a dog or a tree is a plant or animal.

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#52

Post by dockd »

giobox wrote: post #43
bartvk wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say half of my first-year CS students don't know how to create a folder with files, at the start of the school year. To me, it's nuts. But on the other hand, lots of students are very curious and come to learn. You can't blame them for not knowing something.

I try not to get overly-annoyed at this kind of thing too, but to me it just demonstrates an incredible lack of self-drive, or curiosity, especially in the CS domain. If the students are genuinely curious, there is nothing to stop them learning about pretty much any topic in CS - really. There are few university subjects where the entire syllabus is freely available online in almost every format imaginable the way CS…

To keep that line of reasoning going, what is the purpose of the university, if you're supposed to learn everything on your own?

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#53

Post by gabrielsroka »

hyperhello wrote: post #47
gabrielsroka wrote: post #25

Would something like this work instead of using Notepad/TextEdit (at least at first)? Of course, this code could be made better...

Oh yes, that is easy enough and it works fine. It can even save with: localStorage.setItem('text',results.innerHTML=this.value)

i had the same thought: https://github.com/gabrielsroka/gabrielsroka.github.io/blob/...

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#54

Post by james_marks »

dockd wrote: post #52
giobox wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try not to get overly-annoyed at this kind of thing too, but to me it just demonstrates an incredible lack of self-drive, or curiosity, especially in the CS domain. If the students are genuinely curious, there is nothing to stop them learning about pretty much any topic in CS - really. There are few university subjects where the entire syllabus is freely available online in almost every format imaginable the way CS…

To keep that line of reasoning going, what is the purpose of the university, if you're supposed to learn everything on your own?

I know this is sarcasm, but—

Network building, external proof of ability to work, and a place (and just as important - a time) to translate who you are into who you want to be.

These were always the reasons, the rest you learn on the job.

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#55

Post by edflsafoiewq »

cryptoz wrote: post #44
have_faith wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're probably already aware, but , and is optional in HTML5, so it's a "proper" document without them.

Isn't doctype still required by the spec in HTML5 in order to be "proper"? Perhaps I'm mistaken but I thought I remembered that it's technically 'required'.

It enables quirks mode when missing.

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#56

Post by [deleted] »

bartvk wrote: post #27
_lvbh wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crazy how bad the mobile epidemic has gotten. There are kids coming into a Computer Science degree that can't figure out how to unzip a zip or even finding out where files get downloaded to. (Fwiw, those I know dropped out before 2nd year)

I'd say half of my first-year CS students don't know how to create a folder with files, at the start of the school year. To me, it's nuts. But on the other hand, lots of students are very curious and come to learn. You can't blame them for not knowing something.

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#57

Post by bombcar »

_lvbh wrote: post #12
simonw wrote: post #8

This is great. The decision to skip CSS by depending on https://simplecss.org/ is smart - CSS is a whole other thing, and having that on top of basic HTML would be pretty intimidating. I did worry a bit about https://htmlforpeople.com/zero-to-internet-your-first-websit... - "Step 1. Create a folder on your computer" - because apparently a large number of people these days don't understand files and folders at all! ht…

It's crazy how bad the mobile epidemic has gotten. There are kids coming into a Computer Science degree that can't figure out how to unzip a zip or even finding out where files get downloaded to. (Fwiw, those I know dropped out before 2nd year)

It’s also just what people are familiar with and had to learn.

I know incredibly competent web developers who don’t know what SSH is or how to use it. Boggles my mind, but I grew up with it so it’s what I’m used to.

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#58

Post by simonw »

asoneth wrote: post #21
simonw wrote: post #8

This is great. The decision to skip CSS by depending on https://simplecss.org/ is smart - CSS is a whole other thing, and having that on top of basic HTML would be pretty intimidating. I did worry a bit about https://htmlforpeople.com/zero-to-internet-your-first-websit... - "Step 1. Create a folder on your computer" - because apparently a large number of people these days don't understand files and folders at all! ht…

> The decision to skip CSS by depending on https://simplecss.org/ is smart I was always a little disappointed with how most web browsers choose to render HTML pages that had no explicit styling information. I'm not necessarily saying web browsers should have defaults as opinionated as simple.css, but the default page margins, padding, text styles, headings, etc that they picked aren't particularly attractive. Opinion…

That's a historic artifact. If a browser shipped new default CSS today it would break 30+ years of existing web pages.

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#59

Post by al_borland »

tiffanyh wrote: post #19
_lvbh wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crazy how bad the mobile epidemic has gotten. There are kids coming into a Computer Science degree that can't figure out how to unzip a zip or even finding out where files get downloaded to. (Fwiw, those I know dropped out before 2nd year)

It can be even worse. I've seen younger generation only use Google Docs and streaming services (music/video) and not even understand what a "file" is, because everything is just on the internet.

Doesn’t Google Docs stores its files on Google Drive? What do they call the things they open to open an existing doc?

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#60

Post by al_borland »

messo wrote: post #11

I have tried so many times to convince non-technical people that they can put together their own website quite easily, but so often they think I'm joking and that it requires a lot of effort. Next time I'll refer the to this site and ask them to give it half an hour and see what they can create in that time. I know that so many would get hooked if they just get that first taste of "wow, i just published something on…

Schools should really be doing this. I had to make several personal websites in high school and college, that were just HTML and maybe a little CSS (or just old HTML styles). This should be everyone’s first step, imo. It’s a great way to write something and see results quickly and easily. It doesn’t even need a server.
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