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Show HN: HTML for People

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Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#21

Post by asoneth »

simonw wrote: post #8

This is great. The decision to skip CSS by depending on https://simplecss.org/ is smart - CSS is a whole other thing, and having that on top of basic HTML would be pretty intimidating. I did worry a bit about https://htmlforpeople.com/zero-to-internet-your-first-websit... - "Step 1. Create a folder on your computer" - because apparently a large number of people these days don't understand files and folders at all! ht…

> The decision to skip CSS by depending on https://simplecss.org/ is smart

I was always a little disappointed with how most web browsers choose to render HTML pages that had no explicit styling information. I'm not necessarily saying web browsers should have defaults as opinionated as simple.css, but the default page margins, padding, text styles, headings, etc that they picked aren't particularly attractive.

Opinionated web developers will override the defaults no matter what they are, but if the convention was to have more attractive defaults I wonder if that would have resulted in a larger share of personal websites and blogs created using plain HTML.

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#22

Post by otteromkram »

mightybyte wrote: post #7

I think the fundamental approach being taken by this project is immensely valuable to the world. This kind of education about open standards might actually be the most powerful tool that can help us take steps in the direction away from giant opaque corporations and back towards the systems based on open standards that the internet originated from. I really hope this project continues to be updated and get more and m…

Mozilla has amazing documentation that's been around for years.

Here's their basic html tutorial section: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/HTML

No one is or has been stopping people from learning HTML.

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#23

Post by otteromkram »

jimbosis wrote: post #15

I plan to dig in deeper, but this looks like a great introduction to building websites. I teach a one semester high school Web Design class and currently use a mixture of lessons from these two for learning the basics of making pages by hand with HTML and CSS: https://internetingishard.netlify.app/ https://www.washington.edu/accesscomputing/webd2/student/ind... This looks very promising and could supplant or at the v…

Check out Mozilla's tutorials, too.

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/HTML

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#24

Post by baggy_trough »

otteromkram wrote: post #22
mightybyte wrote: post #7

I think the fundamental approach being taken by this project is immensely valuable to the world. This kind of education about open standards might actually be the most powerful tool that can help us take steps in the direction away from giant opaque corporations and back towards the systems based on open standards that the internet originated from. I really hope this project continues to be updated and get more and m…

Mozilla has amazing documentation that's been around for years. Here's their basic html tutorial section: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/HTML No one is or has been stopping people from learning HTML.

Super approachable. (sure Jan meme.gif)

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#26

Post by crooked-v »

_lvbh wrote: post #12
simonw wrote: post #8

This is great. The decision to skip CSS by depending on https://simplecss.org/ is smart - CSS is a whole other thing, and having that on top of basic HTML would be pretty intimidating. I did worry a bit about https://htmlforpeople.com/zero-to-internet-your-first-websit... - "Step 1. Create a folder on your computer" - because apparently a large number of people these days don't understand files and folders at all! ht…

It's crazy how bad the mobile epidemic has gotten. There are kids coming into a Computer Science degree that can't figure out how to unzip a zip or even finding out where files get downloaded to. (Fwiw, those I know dropped out before 2nd year)

Calling it an "epidemic" isn't really helpful. The reason there's this shortcoming isn't because it's some problem inherent to those darn kids, it's because the state of computer education is expect them to just figure it out on their own when they have no need or reason to do so.

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#27

Post by bartvk »

_lvbh wrote: post #12
simonw wrote: post #8

This is great. The decision to skip CSS by depending on https://simplecss.org/ is smart - CSS is a whole other thing, and having that on top of basic HTML would be pretty intimidating. I did worry a bit about https://htmlforpeople.com/zero-to-internet-your-first-websit... - "Step 1. Create a folder on your computer" - because apparently a large number of people these days don't understand files and folders at all! ht…

It's crazy how bad the mobile epidemic has gotten. There are kids coming into a Computer Science degree that can't figure out how to unzip a zip or even finding out where files get downloaded to. (Fwiw, those I know dropped out before 2nd year)

I'd say half of my first-year CS students don't know how to create a folder with files, at the start of the school year. To me, it's nuts. But on the other hand, lots of students are very curious and come to learn. You can't blame them for not knowing something.

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#28

Post by MathMonkeyMan »

username135 wrote: post #20
MathMonkeyMan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad was asking me a question about backing something up onto Google Drive, or saving space on some cloud storage account, or something. He was using the mental model of files and folders -- that files exist and refer to stored bytes, and that there can be one or several copies of a file. There can be links to a file that take very little space relative to the file. I had to tell him that I have no idea what sort o…

Can you elaborate on what you told your father? When i use google drive, the interface appears to be folder/file structure. Whether it is or is made to look that way is irrelevant, i suppose, as long as it works that way. I can also increase storage by downloading/deleting things so Im a bit flummoxed.

I don't remember if he was trying to save space on his Google Drive or on his phone. His question was, mostly, that if he deleted files in one place, where would the space savings appear? I immediately thought of Windows' OneDrive and how it's sort of an automated rsync setup. I didn't know enough about his phone, which apps he was using, or about Google Drive to give an answer better than "I don't know, and I detect that some of your assumptions are probably wrong."

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#29

Post by BirdEBird »

simonw wrote: post #8

This is great. The decision to skip CSS by depending on https://simplecss.org/ is smart - CSS is a whole other thing, and having that on top of basic HTML would be pretty intimidating. I did worry a bit about https://htmlforpeople.com/zero-to-internet-your-first-websit... - "Step 1. Create a folder on your computer" - because apparently a large number of people these days don't understand files and folders at all! ht…

Good article, but the reason is obvious: When opening an app or a web app stopped opening a new document and started to present a list of recent documents, that was the beginning of the end. If someone wants a file, they open the app for that file and scroll down. They have never needed to make sense of a file existing independently of the app in which it was create and may be viewed. This process was cemented by iOS's absence of a file manager.

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#30

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

_lvbh wrote: post #12
simonw wrote: post #8

This is great. The decision to skip CSS by depending on https://simplecss.org/ is smart - CSS is a whole other thing, and having that on top of basic HTML would be pretty intimidating. I did worry a bit about https://htmlforpeople.com/zero-to-internet-your-first-websit... - "Step 1. Create a folder on your computer" - because apparently a large number of people these days don't understand files and folders at all! ht…

It's crazy how bad the mobile epidemic has gotten. There are kids coming into a Computer Science degree that can't figure out how to unzip a zip or even finding out where files get downloaded to. (Fwiw, those I know dropped out before 2nd year)

At one point, every member of a CS program started without having ever seen or touched a computer. Everyone has to start somewhere. We do not reject new biology majors because they had never touched a microscope before entering the program.
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