Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees • Hacker News Board

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#311

Post by dotnet00 » Wed, Oct 09, 2024, 1:25 PM UTC

ewuhic wrote: post #54

How to fight back when you see this happening at line management level, but not yet proliferated to upper management? Indian product owner taking mostly to Indian peer developers, bypassing normal communication channels. Indians being friendly with each other and stone cold with the rest. Indians bringing Indian jokes to the table, with no outsider hoping to understand these. Indians bonding to go to Indian restauran…

Even as an Indian, I don't know how that could be tackled, it seems to be kind of systemic.

I'd always been around people from all sorts of places, and many of the schools I went to would intentionally keep kids of similar origins apart to force them to mingle with others, so I grew up to prefer being around people from different places over just sticking with other Indians. I've had several experiences of running into people who seem to take pride in being the way you describe. My interpretation has been that they have a chip on their shoulder about not being "westerners" and view anyone who is better integrated as being some sort of traitor.

For now, I've only had to experience it in school and university. It's been awful every time. Yours is also a sentiment many people have expressed to me about other Indians once they've opened up to me and realized I won't care if they say something that could be racist.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#312

Post by Eumenes » Wed, Oct 09, 2024, 1:28 PM UTC

dartharva wrote: post #297

Eumenes wrote: post #66

This is obvious at a number of these big box consulting firms for many years (Tata, Cognizant, HCL, Capgemini). Its so easy to verify too - go on linkedin and comb through dozens of search results of exclusively Indians (I'm not talking about American-Indians who go to undergrad in the US like every other person). These firms also take a lions share of the h1b visas which is another conversation - why does India get…

Because there are just that many applicants from India? The result of this is also that Indians have virtually no scope of settling down in the US, since the waitlist for green card for them goes beyond 134 years. Which means none of those H1B holders are going to stay.

Who processes the applicants? Indian bosses (see the tweet/articles). Many US permeant residents are being passed over at these big consulting firms in favor of Indians. Its nepotism, 100%. Indians in the US are not discriminated against. Despite being < 2% of the population of the US, they have an oversized influence in many industries/management level roles.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#313

Post by infecto » Wed, Oct 09, 2024, 1:28 PM UTC

elisharobinson wrote: post #301

infecto wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your analysis is flawed. Its much better to run through a FAANG and compare to levels.fyi. I just did for Meta and the base salary numbers are within the ranges I saw on Levels. Actual level is not outlined so its a broad range. These numbers are set using prevailing wage calculations for a geographical area and role. There is an incentive for companies to figure out ways to get it as low as possible but I have never…

so your telling me my analysis is flawed because i didnt take META as a base. MY guy the article is about CTS. NOT META. H1B is to tech what H2A is for agriculture . Yall want to Drive the combine ( Managment, Software development, VC ) but dont want to do the dirty work ( QA, Devops, IT admin )

>Yall want to Drive the combine ( Managment, Software development, VC ) but dont want to do the dirty work ( QA, Devops, IT admin )

Woah, less caps and racist thoughts and more critical thinking please. I am saying taking a simple average between the two like you did is flawed for a number of reasons.

1) You don't even have an apples to apples comparison. H1B data is based on prevailing wage which is just base pay. So taking your link, 129K - $171K/yr comparing to your other data, 100-150k. Lets take a simple average. and say the glassdoor wage is 150k, that means 50% minimum, remember you said minimum, is 75k. That does not really track with 125k.

2) Prevailing wage is based not only on the role but the geographical location too. An overall average between those two datasets is a very rough guide and I think its better to do direct comparisons at a company level or regional level. Again there is still a lot of normalization and cleanup to do in the datasets, the H1B data is not great for analysis right out of the gate.

Your case of a minimum 50% reduction in base pay is hard to defend except in outlier cases. If it was closer to 25% I think its a much easier number to defend.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#314

Post by Molitor5901 » Wed, Oct 09, 2024, 1:32 PM UTC

The only point of contention I have with this whole debate is the general premise that it's wrong to make citizens of a country redundant (lay them off) in order to replace with cheaper labor brought in from other countries.

From an accounting standpoint perhaps it makes sense, but from the view of the workers, and the community, it just seems wrong.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#315

Post by lupusreal » Wed, Oct 09, 2024, 1:34 PM UTC

quadrifoliate wrote: post #96

miningape wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence the quotation marks: "native" - you're just derailing a legitimate line of reasoning. > I don't see a reasonable basis for concluding that European-American culture should be the "native" or "default" culture in the US Like it or not, it is the dominant culture especially in professional environments. If you want to have a conversation about why that is the case, what else it could be, etc. thats fine! But it's…

> Like it or not, it is the dominant culture especially in professional environments. At least sometimes it's not, which is why the OP feels so excluded and is asking for tips on how to navigate the clearly unfamiliar feeling of not being able to just "fit in" as part of the dominant culture. The reality is that the US is a melting pot with a lot of subcultures, and you should learn to navigate those subcultures inst…

When an ethnic group makes a tacit decision to form an enclave and exclude others, there is no "learning to navigate the subculture". Either you are pushed out or you find the leverage to make them stop doing that.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#316

Post by Lutzb » Wed, Oct 09, 2024, 1:35 PM UTC

jansan wrote: post #162

hnbad wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW there was a huge surge in energy costs following the war in Ukraine (due to the reduction in supply of Russian gas) which was dampened by the government with a subsidized price cap at 0.40€/kWh - for consumers anyway, as far as I'm aware there were different subsidies for industry. But consumer prices have largely stabilized at a range of 0.25€ - 0.35€ although you'll also find some prices listed as low as 0.20€…

> FWIW there was a huge surge in energy costs following the war in Ukraine (due to the reduction in supply of Russian gas) And due to the fact that they decided to shut down the last nuclear power plants directly after that, which further reduced supply and until today I consider this one of the most stupid political decisions ever made.

I think the 4.1 percent that nuclear was providing was not having the impact you are assuming. Also the amount of energy produced by natural gas and renewables more than offset the cost of nuclear.

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-c...

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#317

Post by lupusreal » Wed, Oct 09, 2024, 1:36 PM UTC

Molitor5901 wrote: post #314

The only point of contention I have with this whole debate is the general premise that it's wrong to make citizens of a country redundant (lay them off) in order to replace with cheaper labor brought in from other countries. From an accounting standpoint perhaps it makes sense, but from the view of the workers, and the community, it just seems wrong.

Unionization could, at least in principle, offer a solution.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#318

Post by Molitor5901 » Wed, Oct 09, 2024, 1:37 PM UTC

sidcool wrote: post #13

seper8 wrote: post #11

[flagged]

It's the same as saying all whites are racist. Both are wrong.

I don't think everyone is racist but I do believe that everyone has strong tribal preference. In my opinion, people feel most comfortable around those who are most like them. This is why you can look at any food market, friend group, etc. and see so few groups of people of mixed cultures. It's very natural. Racism is when you discriminate against another race/culture, even if it's just "he speaks my language, I can understand him better.."

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#319

Post by bryanlarsen » Wed, Oct 09, 2024, 1:41 PM UTC

rtlasacc wrote: post #290

bryanlarsen wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> since he is far more competent in foreign policy The guy foreign leaders call the "laughing fool"? > the economy will improve. Trump's plans would cause the economy to shrink by 10% and cause 28% inflation, according to independent analysis. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/26/business/economy/trump-ec...

The world was far more stable in 2016-2020. It does not matter what someone is called. Just watch what actually happens and overlook all the talk (we might as well explore what Harris is called; I think the attribute is "cackling" and not "laughing"). The NYT is not unbiased when it comes to Trump and none of these plans will be implemented. Again, the economy was good in 2016-2020.

Judge not by absolute standings but by relative standings. During the Trump presidency our competitor's economies were growing faster than America's: China, Germany, et cetera. America was losing its status as #1. During the Biden presidency every economy but America's took an absolute beating. Britain & Germany went into a deep recession. China's growth flatlined. America was pretty much the only economy to avoid getting curb-stomped and regained its status as the clear #1 economy.

Anybody can do well when there's a rising tide raising all boats. It takes a true master to do OK when everybody else is doing poorly.

P.S. The NYT has a significant both-sides-ism bias and is the only place you'll find pro-Trump articles outside of the right wing media.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#320

Post by lupusreal » Wed, Oct 09, 2024, 1:42 PM UTC

hshshshsvsv wrote: post #270

tock wrote: post #212

It's weird how racism against Indians online is so normalised. I see the same on reddit too.

[flagged]

I've never seen let alone worked in a team that only had white people. Not once. I've never seen nor heard of a team that only had Japanese or Koreans or Russians or any other singular group except two: Chinese and Indians. These two groups have a unique tendency to form ethnically exclusive teams at companies and get away with it.