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Google won't be mandating a strict return-to-office plan

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Re: Google won't be mandating a strict return-to-office plan

#131

Post by Spooky23 »

ryandrake wrote: post #86
glzone1 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of business don't want to bother performance managing that closely. Plenty just worked off of trust. * You hire someone, and then figure out someone else is doing the work (usually because they are making stupid mistakes, and the person you hired can't be that dumb) * Your staff work odd hours that make coordinating hard (side gigs / hussle's etc). * I think the rumored record of multiple full time jobs someone…

> * I think the rumored record of multiple full time jobs someone was working was 5+. > * We interviewed someone who was upfront they would be working for us while working for her full time day job remotely. I'm not sure how this is justified as a problem. CEO of multiple companies: A-OK SVP serving on multiple companies' boards of directors: A-OK Salaried office worker working for multiple companies remotely: Fraud…

CEOs and SVPs have contracts that deal with these issues. Salaried workers commit to full time hour commitment.

My employer allows outside employment for some roles if appropriate. It requires disclosure and may not be possible depending on what you do. Double dipping is not acceptable.

I’m a VP level person who serves on a couple of boards and help with a family business. It’s all disclosed and approved with mutually agreeable boundaries.

Another example is an attorney - it’s ok for some private practice, but not ok if that practice will reasonably involve an entity that the company is likely to interact with.

Re: Google won't be mandating a strict return-to-office plan

#132

Post by yegle »

xyst wrote: post #12

They say this now. But in 12 months (or the next layoff period), they will move from hybrid to full RTO. Still a shitty move to mandate RTO. Most people (IT folks) have spoke with do this routine: 0) daily routine to prepare for day 1) 1 hr commute to shitty office 2) login to computer, do calls with cross regional (and international) teams over Zoom/Teams/Webex or whatever conferencing system 3) teleconferencing wit…

At least Google's offices have nice perks: free gym, healthy and nutritious meals, healthy and tasty snacks. Personally those perks are enough to negate the terrible commute.

I was told Amazon's offices has none of these.

Re: Google won't be mandating a strict return-to-office plan

#133

Post by epolanski »

ryandrake wrote: post #45
worstspotgain wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Bay Area, 1-hour commutes are generally for older and apartment people. Younger family people are in the 2+ range.

When I lived in the Bay Area, my commute was ~2.5 hours each way. I would have killed for a 1 hour commute.

I find it absurd how Americans can't give up on their suburbs and car centric development dystopia and then spend so much time in their cars.

Re: Google won't be mandating a strict return-to-office plan

#134

Post by CommieBobDole »

grayfaced wrote: post #62
fhdsgbbcaA wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define “fraud”? If you get your work done in two hours and can’t progress until a teammate does their end, is it better or worse if you are scrolling HN in an office or at home? I run my own company, I do not give a single fuck how, where, or when people get their job done. I only care they deliver. Likewise, people who need to be watched over are not the employees I want in the first place. I’m not running a daycare…

And if you find out that your developers were actually in North Korea and you've violated sanctions, would you care then? https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-disrupts-n...

Why do we do this all the time? Somebody makes a slightly hyperbolic statement, and everybody replies to them with the most outlandish and extreme examples of things that would be problems if they literally meant the exact thing they said.

"People can wear anything they want out in public, I don't care"

"Yeah, well if they wore a suit made of plutonium, or one covered with guns that fired randomly in every direction, I bet you'd care then".

I'm going to give the guy the benefit of the doubt and assume that he probably does the due diligence to verify that his employees are legally able to work wherever the company is, and aren't using company resources to launch cyberattacks on the NSA, aren't international terrorists trying to destroy the moon, etc, etc.

Re: Google won't be mandating a strict return-to-office plan

#135

Post by Spooky23 »

fhdsgbbcaA wrote: post #53
Spooky23 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a ton of fraud in this space. You need at least hybrid to keep that at bay. At a previous place, we chose hybrid RTO over intrusive surveillance. My opinion shifted from being a full remote advocate after I caught a half dozen folks with various schemes and scams. The straw that broke the camels back was a guy who lied about where he was living. He was going through a divorce and the ex-wife ratted him out to…

Define “fraud”? If you get your work done in two hours and can’t progress until a teammate does their end, is it better or worse if you are scrolling HN in an office or at home? I run my own company, I do not give a single fuck how, where, or when people get their job done. I only care they deliver. Likewise, people who need to be watched over are not the employees I want in the first place. I’m not running a daycare…

If you want to work like a hourly contractor, be one. Work your hours.

If you want to be a $250k engineer and fuck around on Netflix waiting for something for 75% of the workday, you’re demonstrating a lack of maturity and professionalism. Or you work for a really dysfunctional place.

If you’re running your own shop, you’re empowered to run it to your needs. That’s awesome. Mine are different.

Re: Google won't be mandating a strict return-to-office plan

#136

Post by epolanski »

redserk wrote: post #63
ENGNR wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same! Tech job, my co-founder and I are only a 5 minute drive or bike ride from the office. It’s nice to get dressed and have that separation from home. I feel like the commute is what people are actually feeling the worst, because it’s unpaid time that they just straight up lose. Being close to the office resolves it for us.

Unfortunately a new job, even 5-8 miles away, may turn a then-5 minute commute into a 45m-1hr commute in many metropolitan areas. I think more management needs to realize that forcing in-person isn't inherently beneficial. There can be value in meeting up if it's appropriately planned, though. My current management has been very accommodating with remote/hybrid. If there's a meeting where face-time is beneficial, peo…

With good public transport and metros such low distanced would never take that long.

But Americans just can't give up the freedom of being stressed in their cars.

Re: Google won't be mandating a strict return-to-office plan

#137

Post by nostromo »

xyst wrote: post #12

They say this now. But in 12 months (or the next layoff period), they will move from hybrid to full RTO. Still a shitty move to mandate RTO. Most people (IT folks) have spoke with do this routine: 0) daily routine to prepare for day 1) 1 hr commute to shitty office 2) login to computer, do calls with cross regional (and international) teams over Zoom/Teams/Webex or whatever conferencing system 3) teleconferencing wit…

You're forgetting that a lot of people still have to WFH, they just do it now before or after going to the office - so it's even worse than you're stating.

I know some folks that work from the west coast with customers on the east coast, and they regularly are taking meetings at 6am from home, then commuting in, and getting home late.

If we return to the office, we should not also be expected to work long hours when we're at home. It's the worst of both words.

Re: Google won't be mandating a strict return-to-office plan

#138

Post by BeetleB »

xyst wrote: post #12

They say this now. But in 12 months (or the next layoff period), they will move from hybrid to full RTO. Still a shitty move to mandate RTO. Most people (IT folks) have spoke with do this routine: 0) daily routine to prepare for day 1) 1 hr commute to shitty office 2) login to computer, do calls with cross regional (and international) teams over Zoom/Teams/Webex or whatever conferencing system 3) teleconferencing wit…

I think if you're required to RTO, you should insist on not having Zoom/Teams/Webex on while in the office.

"Come to my cube if you need me".

Way before the pandemic, I almost never had those tools running on my work laptop - unless it was for a (rare at the time) cross-geo meeting. A coworker once sent me a screenshot of how I appeared in the IM tool - Last seen 120 days ago.

Sadly, that went away once we hired our first remote person.

Re: Google won't be mandating a strict return-to-office plan

#139

Post by epolanski »

mschuster91 wrote: post #99
ultimafan wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the exact opposite- I didn't have the discipline to keep working when I work from home- my productivity plummeted during COVID and skyrocketed when RTO was mandated again. At home I'm too easily distracted by errands, hobby projects in the garage, picking up a book to read "just a chapter" on a coffee break and realizing 2-3 hours have passed, and the like. In office I feel obligated to actually be productive…

> In office I feel obligated to actually be productive from the combined shame of being seen as a slacker and less physical opportunities to goof off. If anything, an office makes for more unproductivity than working remotely. No random people showing up at your desk with "can you help out real quick (LOL) here and there", no "hey we gotta wait for colleague XYZ before we head for lunch break", no coffee room talk...

No no and no.

Stop thinking all people are the same.

Some people are just unproductive at home, some are more. That's life.

I know plenty of people that are absolutely unproductive at home, they just get distracted easily as the previous user.

And there's many people that just can't work without carrot and stick provided by people/bosses around them judging their daily routine.

Seriously stop thinking that every person works as you.

We are all different and reality is that WFH is tough for many people from many points of view, it's not for everyone.

Re: Google won't be mandating a strict return-to-office plan

#140

Post by epolanski »

phito wrote: post #84
time0ut wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have the discipline to stop working when I work from home. Being able to go into the office every day is a nice perk for me to help structure my day. If it was a longer drive, I'd probably feel differently.

Wait you need discipline to... stop working?!

I can relate.

I work (or at least spend the time at the PC even if I don't) around two hours more per day from home, while the office made me quit much sooner.

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