61–70 of 249 posts
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The downside is that when people are considering which car to buy, Tesla has enjoyed their charging network as a strong selling point that other automakers don't have
But they gain the selling point that charging Teslas is cheaper.
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Short term it will likely be the same - Telsa has the most chargers, but they do not have a monopoly and they will be forced to charge the same to all just to compete.
Most places it's not like gas stations where there's 3 on the same block and they all have exactly the same price all the time, people are going to stop at whatever charger is located where they need it and pay whatever the price is as long as it's within reason.
I could easily see EV charging stations approach the level of saturation of gas stations in the next 10 years.
Yes, today people are going to stop wherever there's a nearby charging station. But that's going to change, and fairly quickly.
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The is true today. However EVs are becoming more common and chargers are being built. In a few years chargers will be more common and have to compete on price. Today Tesla can get away with charging more to some customers - those people will figure it out though and eventually they will have enough options that they can go elsewhere. It is hard enough to brand gasoline (you can have a brand specific additive package…
Tesla has enough time to get brand recognition for cheap charging, even if it gets less relevant over time. Even when chargers become more common in cities, there will always be some places like smaller villages or long roads where you only have one option; that option possibly being a Tesla charger. So even if it loses significance, the difference will still be there. And maybe it will be sufficient to retain Tesla…
Sure, and that's exactly the case for gas stations today, and I'm sure the lone gas station on the long stretch of road has more pricing power than the one in the middle of a city with competition.
And yet gas stations don't charge based on what kind of car you drive. Tesla shouldn't be permitted to do so either, as this market develops more.
As a Tesla owner, I see this as a straight up loss in nearly every category. I never have used a third party charger, so even if those chargers move to the NACS standard it won’t improve my life in any way.
I’ve already had to deal with Rivian or Ford owners taking up several stalls at the Superchargers (because they weren’t designed to fit correctly, and Rivian drivers are incompetent) and taking over twice as long to charge as Teslas are able to.
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So what does this mean for a Tesla on an NACS charger? Do they already support CCS over that port, or is it a software update? I know Teslas were already CCS in Europe, so I wouldn't be surprised if the software is already basically there.
Older Teslas (approx 2019 and older) need a hardware update.
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No licensing fees to use the connector but do we know they didn't pay any fees for access to Tesla's chargers? EDIT - at least in Ford's case they've stated that they aren't https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/29/ford-tesla-supercharging-par...
As a non-Tesla EV owner, I would happily pay surcharges for charging on Tesla's network if it meant I could reliably use my vehicle on extended trips out of town. Tesla charging network has a very good reputation for reliability, which is a primary concern if I'm traveling on the highway. It's not something I do often, so paying a premium once in a while to use my EV instead of my ICE vehicle seems like a decent trad…
Gas stations don't charge different amounts for gas depending on the type of car, and EV charging stations shouldn't be permitted to do so either.
I don't have an EV, but I agree that Tesla has a much much better reputation for reliable, working charging stations in the US. If people will actually pay more for that experience, then sure, Tesla can charge more than a competing charging company. But they should be required to charge the same amount regardless of vehicle.
The only exception to that, I think, is that they should be able to charge differently based on charging speed, which is related to the type of vehicl. All gas cars will fill up at more or less the same rate, but with EVs it depends on the battery technology and the car's electrical system. Taking up space at a charging station for a longer amount of time to consume the same amount of energy is a cost to the operator (and an annoyance for anyone waiting in line), and it seems reasonable to charge for that. So I think it would be fair to charge $X/kWh + $Y/min.
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I feel bad for people who can't charge at home. I get to charge at my residential 11.5¢/kWh. Though I don't go far from home very often so I've never charged anywhere else. If I wasn't getting this rate the savings over gas would get a lot narrower.
As much of an EV enthusiast as I am, I tell people that if they can't charge at home, don't get an EV. I'm in a similar boat, my electricity is I think 11 cents/kWh. $8.25 to completely charge my battery, which will then get me ~250 miles. The cost-per-mile is equivalent to getting over 125 mpg.
Obviously it’s more convenient if you can charge at home or work, but I disagree that such a thing is mandatory to own an EV.
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> They will probably support CCS for a while NACS is CCS with a different plug on the end. Tesla's charging standard is to die off, CCS will be the standard going forward. Here's a real world demonstration of a charger with J3400 plugs (aka Tesla's plug): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3-0xRTduPI It works on a Chevy Bolt because it is CCS.
So what does this mean for a Tesla on an NACS charger? Do they already support CCS over that port, or is it a software update? I know Teslas were already CCS in Europe, so I wouldn't be surprised if the software is already basically there.
Version 2 superchargers do not speak CCS and won't ever be opened to non-Tesla vehicles and there are certain routes where that's quite annoying. My most common road trip has 5 supercharger locations along the way with 3 of them being V2, including the most isolated charger. Even once the NACS changeover happens taking a non-tesla on that journey will be a real pain.
Tesla has not put any resources into converting V2 sites into V3s. Some of the locations have been expanded with the new additions being V3, but I haven't seen much in the way of switchover.
How do I know? I bought one. The first issue I had was they claimed the unit was available to ship when I purchased, but did not ship even though they sent me a tracking number that simply stated "package hasn't been dropped off at UPS" when looked up. When I inquired they said it would be shipping "this week" for 3 weeks. I had also paid for expedited shipping and the company refused to refund this. After collecting screenshots I told them I would be reversing the charge through my CC company. That same day the product was shipped.
Then I experienced the design issues with the product first hand that everyone has now beaten to death on the Internet. Next I spent another two weeks trying to get the company to refund my money and take back their product. I ended up reversing the charge and only after I did that did they issue me an RMA to send the unit back, because now they wanted it back since my CC company reviewed all of my screenshots of their claims and reversed the charge.
Do not waste your time with Lectron!