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GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

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Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#51

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

LargeWu wrote: post #26
wlesieutre wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No licensing fees to use the connector but do we know they didn't pay any fees for access to Tesla's chargers? EDIT - at least in Ford's case they've stated that they aren't https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/29/ford-tesla-supercharging-par...

As a non-Tesla EV owner, I would happily pay surcharges for charging on Tesla's network if it meant I could reliably use my vehicle on extended trips out of town. Tesla charging network has a very good reputation for reliability, which is a primary concern if I'm traveling on the highway. It's not something I do often, so paying a premium once in a while to use my EV instead of my ICE vehicle seems like a decent trad…

There was someone on a EV Road Tripping group on Facebook mentioning how they took an EV from Florida to New Jersey and talked about how awful it was.

The top comment said something that every EV enthusiast knows. There are two wildly different charging experiences: Tesla, and everyone else.

Can you have a good experience with a non-Tesla? Sure! But with a Tesla, having a good experience is nearly guaranteed. With anyone else, it's a gamble.

You go to a Electrify America or some other charging network location, and you'll likely find only 2-4 stalls, and likely 1 or more of them are broken. Go to a Tesla Supercharger, and there's usually 8-16 chargers, all working. Even with a broken stall (It happens), you've got more available. And with so many stalls, and so many locations, it's exceptionally rare to get to a charging location and finding all of them in use.

This last week I took a road trip in my Model 3 from Portland to San Diego. 2,400 miles round trip. Never ran into a charging issue. I did see that a couple locations had a stall that was out of order, but with so many stalls, it wasn't an issue at all.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#52

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

connicpu wrote: post #23
emilecantin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is common knowledge. I don't have a link to send you, but I've just looked up the closest supercharger on the Tesla website and it charges 0.55$ / kWh for NACS vehicles, while in my Tesla app the same supercharger shows 0.42$ / kWh.

I feel bad for people who can't charge at home. I get to charge at my residential 11.5¢/kWh. Though I don't go far from home very often so I've never charged anywhere else. If I wasn't getting this rate the savings over gas would get a lot narrower.

As much of an EV enthusiast as I am, I tell people that if they can't charge at home, don't get an EV.

I'm in a similar boat, my electricity is I think 11 cents/kWh. $8.25 to completely charge my battery, which will then get me ~250 miles. The cost-per-mile is equivalent to getting over 125 mpg.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#53

Post by rconti »

peutetre wrote: post #37
bluGill wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone in the US has committed to NACS in the next couple years. The others are aware of this and if they are not completely stupid making plans. They will probably support CCS for a while in some form, but they will be doing NACS in the near future. It might be like regular/premium/diesel fuels - pumps support more than one hose (though wire is more expensive than a hose).

> They will probably support CCS for a while NACS is CCS with a different plug on the end. Tesla's charging standard is to die off, CCS will be the standard going forward. Here's a real world demonstration of a charger with J3400 plugs (aka Tesla's plug): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3-0xRTduPI It works on a Chevy Bolt because it is CCS.

So what does this mean for a Tesla on an NACS charger? Do they already support CCS over that port, or is it a software update?

I know Teslas were already CCS in Europe, so I wouldn't be surprised if the software is already basically there.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#54

Post by rconti »

connicpu wrote: post #23
emilecantin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is common knowledge. I don't have a link to send you, but I've just looked up the closest supercharger on the Tesla website and it charges 0.55$ / kWh for NACS vehicles, while in my Tesla app the same supercharger shows 0.42$ / kWh.

I feel bad for people who can't charge at home. I get to charge at my residential 11.5¢/kWh. Though I don't go far from home very often so I've never charged anywhere else. If I wasn't getting this rate the savings over gas would get a lot narrower.

Here in the bay area, my at home charging costs are very close to a supercharger. something like 35c vs 40c.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#55

Post by actionfromafar »

gwbas1c wrote: post #48
phkahler wrote: post #19

>> Future GM vehicles will come with Tesla’s charging port natively installed. This makes me happy. I worked on "standard" charging infrastructure for a while and those plugs are fv*king heavy and clunky by comparison. Also talked to an old Ford guy I worked with years ago who was involved in the standard development process - he seems content to "understand" what the politics and compromises were to the extent he co…

This just feels like VHS vs. Betamax. VHS won because it was the better format, but Betamax fans took a value out of context and kept whining about the loss for years. (VHS was better. Not only was it cheaper, Betamax's smaller cassette meant that feature length movies used a slower tape speed than VHS, negating claims of a better picture.)

Must resist... nitpicking... no I can't. Betamax originally didn't sell tapes which could record more than 1 hour. So people couldn't tape movies onto a single tape, but had to use 2 tapes.

What I really came to say is that the current reality is worse. In this analogy, not only did BetaMax win, neither BetaMax nor VHS came to Europe, but instead Philips 2000 won there. (US Teslas don't fast-charge in Europe.)

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#56

Post by coryrc »

connicpu wrote: post #23
emilecantin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is common knowledge. I don't have a link to send you, but I've just looked up the closest supercharger on the Tesla website and it charges 0.55$ / kWh for NACS vehicles, while in my Tesla app the same supercharger shows 0.42$ / kWh.

I feel bad for people who can't charge at home. I get to charge at my residential 11.5¢/kWh. Though I don't go far from home very often so I've never charged anywhere else. If I wasn't getting this rate the savings over gas would get a lot narrower.

The price usually varies over the day; in the morning (until ~10am IIRC) and late at night here in the Seattle area it's 14¢/kWh for supercharging and my residential electricity is around 11¢/kWh.

But, if you can't charge at work nor at home, EV car isn't worth it.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#58

Post by bluGill »

gwbas1c wrote: post #50
bluGill wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More importantly, there are not a lot of chargers. Gas stations are on every important intersections, chargers are much less common and only rarely in places as convenient. (part of this is charging takes longer and there is the expectation the people charging are willing to go a little farther to find someplace where there is something else to do). As electric cars become more common every car manufacture needs to b…

Uhm, that's no longer true. There's a lot of new charging stations. This summer, I drove from MA to Washington DC and every other rest stop had chargers; sometimes multiple brands. I also drove from MA to Montreal and there were plenty of chargers. Basically, every time I needed to pee there was a charger 5-10 minutes ahead of me. Plugged in, went to the bathroom, and then I had more than enough charge to go to the n…

Depends on where you travel, I travel a lot in the west. Gas stations are not as common. I'm glad and not surprised to hear denser parts of the us are getting reasonable charger density as well.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#59

Post by rpmisms »

MBCook wrote: post #33
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, https://driveelectric.gov/news/new-cfi-funding-released > This funding opportunity is made possible by the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law’s signature EV charging investments: the $2.5 billion Charging and Fueling Infrastructure (CFI) Discretionary Grant Program and funds from the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) Formula Program that are set aside for strategic grants to st…

They didn’t have a choice. My understand is the EU dictated all cars have the IEC Type 2(?) connector to sell, so Tesla complied. No mess like the US. The US had no such law and has refused to make one. We’ve gone with the traditional carrot approach where they wouldn’t get funds to built more superchargers without doing this due to the infrastructure law. But it was their choice and they didn’t have to.

Seems like the US free market approach is winning yet again, where the superior product is becoming the standard, and the inventor of the superior product is profiting.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#60

Post by bryanlarsen »

rconti wrote: post #53
peutetre wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They will probably support CCS for a while NACS is CCS with a different plug on the end. Tesla's charging standard is to die off, CCS will be the standard going forward. Here's a real world demonstration of a charger with J3400 plugs (aka Tesla's plug): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3-0xRTduPI It works on a Chevy Bolt because it is CCS.

So what does this mean for a Tesla on an NACS charger? Do they already support CCS over that port, or is it a software update? I know Teslas were already CCS in Europe, so I wouldn't be surprised if the software is already basically there.

Older Teslas (approx 2019 and older) need a hardware update.
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