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GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

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Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#31
post #4

I'd seen some rumors that Tesla has been trying to slow down onboarding of other automakers to their charging network, so it's good to see information to the contrary. I still struggle to see how this ends up favorable for Tesla in the long run. They did not charge licensing fees for the connector, and even if they charge a premium to charge non-Tesla vehicles, now owners of Tesla vehicles are going to run into situa…

>> I still struggle to see how this ends up favorable for Tesla in the long run. This will allow the rest of the charging infrastructure to become Tesla compatible. That may reduce the load on Teslas network, which they only built so their EVs could go cross country.

More importantly, there are not a lot of chargers. Gas stations are on every important intersections, chargers are much less common and only rarely in places as convenient. (part of this is charging takes longer and there is the expectation the people charging are willing to go a little farther to find someplace where there is something else to do). As electric cars become more common every car manufacture needs to be able to say you can get anywhere with no worries as there are chargers. Tesla can get you across the country but you often have no choice where you stop to charge - if you pass a charger at 25% charge you are likely to run out a long way from any charger, while if you pass a gas station at 25% fuel you can probably pass several dozen more before running out and then are close to a station (more than walking distance, but an easy hitchhike) There are exceptions - I've been in remote areas where gas stations are that far miles apart, but they are rare, while that is still normal for EV charging outside of cities (and inside of a city you are more likely to charge at home and thus not care).

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#32
post #4

I'd seen some rumors that Tesla has been trying to slow down onboarding of other automakers to their charging network, so it's good to see information to the contrary. I still struggle to see how this ends up favorable for Tesla in the long run. They did not charge licensing fees for the connector, and even if they charge a premium to charge non-Tesla vehicles, now owners of Tesla vehicles are going to run into situa…

Tesla bills themselves as an energy company. In theory, they could back their charging network with solar and battery storage and offer power cheaper/cleaner than competitors.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#33
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had to open their chargers to get some of the benefits from that big bill a year or two ago (build back better?). That may be why. In low use areas it may be a nice ROI. I’ve heard in high use areas things could already be bad from the increase in Teslas sold and piling Fords, GMs, and Rivians in isn’t going to lighten the load any.

Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, https://driveelectric.gov/news/new-cfi-funding-released > This funding opportunity is made possible by the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law’s signature EV charging investments: the $2.5 billion Charging and Fueling Infrastructure (CFI) Discretionary Grant Program and funds from the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) Formula Program that are set aside for strategic grants to st…

They didn’t have a choice. My understand is the EU dictated all cars have the IEC Type 2(?) connector to sell, so Tesla complied. No mess like the US.

The US had no such law and has refused to make one. We’ve gone with the traditional carrot approach where they wouldn’t get funds to built more superchargers without doing this due to the infrastructure law. But it was their choice and they didn’t have to.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#34
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much will owners of other manufacturers' cars pay for electricity at the Superchargers, compared to those who have Teslas? The article doesn't mention this (or I missed it). I'm curious to know what this adds up to over the life of a car.

Short term it will likely be the same - Telsa has the most chargers, but they do not have a monopoly and they will be forced to charge the same to all just to compete.

Most places it's not like gas stations where there's 3 on the same block and they all have exactly the same price all the time, people are going to stop at whatever charger is located where they need it and pay whatever the price is as long as it's within reason.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#35
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Short term it will likely be the same - Telsa has the most chargers, but they do not have a monopoly and they will be forced to charge the same to all just to compete.

Most places it's not like gas stations where there's 3 on the same block and they all have exactly the same price all the time, people are going to stop at whatever charger is located where they need it and pay whatever the price is as long as it's within reason.

The is true today. However EVs are becoming more common and chargers are being built. In a few years chargers will be more common and have to compete on price. Today Tesla can get away with charging more to some customers - those people will figure it out though and eventually they will have enough options that they can go elsewhere. It is hard enough to brand gasoline (you can have a brand specific additive package most don't but they do exist) electrons are even more identical.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#36
post #4

I'd seen some rumors that Tesla has been trying to slow down onboarding of other automakers to their charging network, so it's good to see information to the contrary. I still struggle to see how this ends up favorable for Tesla in the long run. They did not charge licensing fees for the connector, and even if they charge a premium to charge non-Tesla vehicles, now owners of Tesla vehicles are going to run into situa…

> I'd seen some rumors that Tesla has been trying to slow down onboarding of other automakers to their charging network

It's more simple. The delays have been because Musk threw a tantrum and fired the whole supercharging team:

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/inside...

> I still struggle to see how this ends up favorable for Tesla in the long run

Standardization gives Teslas more access to more chargers. It will also drive up utilization of Tesla's charging network because more cars will use more of Tesla's chargers more of the time.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/28/22596337/tesla-supercharg...

Tesla's chargers have been open to all brands for a long time in Europe. Here's a Kia charging on a V4 charger with no app and no Tesla account just as Nature intended:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yflZN0dLT8s

Tesla is just one charge point operator among many in Europe. Tesla's chargers are behind the state of the art. They still don't work well for 800 volt cars:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJ2KtzMeh8

The Cybertruck is an 800 volt platform and charges faster on Electrify America than on Tesla's own chargers:

https://x.com/itskyleconner/status/1775014705222070331

EV charging standardization in Europe has driven investment in and deployment of charging infrastructure. The US has 193,000 public AC and DC charge points:

https://www.carscoops.com/2024/09/americas-ev-charging-infra...

Europe has over 900,000:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41466853

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#37
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This still feels a long way off. I have yet to encounter a charger, not made by Tesla, that has an NACS plug.

Everyone in the US has committed to NACS in the next couple years. The others are aware of this and if they are not completely stupid making plans. They will probably support CCS for a while in some form, but they will be doing NACS in the near future. It might be like regular/premium/diesel fuels - pumps support more than one hose (though wire is more expensive than a hose).

> They will probably support CCS for a while

NACS is CCS with a different plug on the end. Tesla's charging standard is to die off, CCS will be the standard going forward.

Here's a real world demonstration of a charger with J3400 plugs (aka Tesla's plug):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3-0xRTduPI

It works on a Chevy Bolt because it is CCS.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#38
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most places it's not like gas stations where there's 3 on the same block and they all have exactly the same price all the time, people are going to stop at whatever charger is located where they need it and pay whatever the price is as long as it's within reason.

The is true today. However EVs are becoming more common and chargers are being built. In a few years chargers will be more common and have to compete on price. Today Tesla can get away with charging more to some customers - those people will figure it out though and eventually they will have enough options that they can go elsewhere. It is hard enough to brand gasoline (you can have a brand specific additive package…

Tesla has enough time to get brand recognition for cheap charging, even if it gets less relevant over time.

Even when chargers become more common in cities, there will always be some places like smaller villages or long roads where you only have one option; that option possibly being a Tesla charger.

So even if it loses significance, the difference will still be there. And maybe it will be sufficient to retain Tesla being known for being cheaper long-term (because of charging).

Whether that's realistic: I don't know.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#39
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I still struggle to see how this ends up favorable for Tesla in the long run. They're expanding their customer-base by maybe 2x or more. Those new customers will be be giving recurring payments to Tesla. For vehicles that Tesla didn't build. How is that not favourable?

Tesla doesn't break out the details, but I think it's generally understood among investors that they just break even on Supercharger. Their profit comes from their cars, and the Supercharger network was a competitive advantage to get people to buy the cars. I think they opened up the Supercharger network to ensure that the US didn't establish CCS as the standard and overtake Superchargers, such that Teslas have a com…

Tesla chargers are CCS. It's just that in the US they use a different plug, in Europe Tesla chargers uses CCS-2 connectors.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#40
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I still struggle to see how this ends up favorable for Tesla in the long run. They're expanding their customer-base by maybe 2x or more. Those new customers will be be giving recurring payments to Tesla. For vehicles that Tesla didn't build. How is that not favourable?

Tesla doesn't break out the details, but I think it's generally understood among investors that they just break even on Supercharger. Their profit comes from their cars, and the Supercharger network was a competitive advantage to get people to buy the cars. I think they opened up the Supercharger network to ensure that the US didn't establish CCS as the standard and overtake Superchargers, such that Teslas have a com…

This goes both ways -- historically the other charging networks were J1772 or CCS (with a few CHAdeMO to support Nissan Leafs), but now Electrify America, EVgo, etc. have been retrofitting or newly installing a mix of CCS and NACS cables onto their L3 chargers. This increases the available charger footprint for Teslas as well.
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