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GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

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Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#11

Post by wlesieutre »

JanSolo wrote: post #7
flurie wrote: post #4

I'd seen some rumors that Tesla has been trying to slow down onboarding of other automakers to their charging network, so it's good to see information to the contrary. I still struggle to see how this ends up favorable for Tesla in the long run. They did not charge licensing fees for the connector, and even if they charge a premium to charge non-Tesla vehicles, now owners of Tesla vehicles are going to run into situa…

> I still struggle to see how this ends up favorable for Tesla in the long run. They're expanding their customer-base by maybe 2x or more. Those new customers will be be giving recurring payments to Tesla. For vehicles that Tesla didn't build. How is that not favourable?

The downside is that when people are considering which car to buy, Tesla has enjoyed their charging network as a strong selling point that other automakers don't have

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#12

Post by emilecantin »

idontwantthis wrote: post #8
IncreasePosts wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No licensing fees, but they are charging a premium for non-Teslas to use the superchargers.

Do you have a source showing they are charging higher prices for non Teslas?

This is common knowledge. I don't have a link to send you, but I've just looked up the closest supercharger on the Tesla website and it charges 0.55$ / kWh for NACS vehicles, while in my Tesla app the same supercharger shows 0.42$ / kWh.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#13

Post by jauntywundrkind »

MBCook wrote: post #9
tensor wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I can't see how it's great for Tesla other than I guess extra revenue from charging. But the infrastructure already is somewhat constrained, so yes there will be more lines now at superchargers. On the other hand, I'm happy we're not heading down the path of shitty walled gardens of charging, eventually Tesla owners will also benefit from being able to charge more easily at 3rd party chargers. For humanity this…

They had to open their chargers to get some of the benefits from that big bill a year or two ago (build back better?). That may be why. In low use areas it may be a nice ROI. I’ve heard in high use areas things could already be bad from the increase in Teslas sold and piling Fords, GMs, and Rivians in isn’t going to lighten the load any.

Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, https://driveelectric.gov/news/new-cfi-funding-released

> This funding opportunity is made possible by the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law’s signature EV charging investments: the $2.5 billion Charging and Fueling Infrastructure (CFI) Discretionary Grant Program and funds from the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) Formula Program that are set aside for strategic grants to states and local governments to deploy EV chargers.

It seems like Tesla's behavior has been much better in Europe, and I'm not sure what explains the discrepancy.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#14

Post by wlesieutre »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #6
flurie wrote: post #4

I'd seen some rumors that Tesla has been trying to slow down onboarding of other automakers to their charging network, so it's good to see information to the contrary. I still struggle to see how this ends up favorable for Tesla in the long run. They did not charge licensing fees for the connector, and even if they charge a premium to charge non-Tesla vehicles, now owners of Tesla vehicles are going to run into situa…

No licensing fees, but they are charging a premium for non-Teslas to use the superchargers.

No licensing fees to use the connector but do we know they didn't pay any fees for access to Tesla's chargers?

EDIT - at least in Ford's case they've stated that they aren't https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/29/ford-tesla-supercharging-par...

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#15

Post by aniviacat »

wlesieutre wrote: post #11
JanSolo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I still struggle to see how this ends up favorable for Tesla in the long run. They're expanding their customer-base by maybe 2x or more. Those new customers will be be giving recurring payments to Tesla. For vehicles that Tesla didn't build. How is that not favourable?

The downside is that when people are considering which car to buy, Tesla has enjoyed their charging network as a strong selling point that other automakers don't have

But they gain the selling point that charging Teslas is cheaper.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#16

Post by IncreasePosts »

idontwantthis wrote: post #8
IncreasePosts wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No licensing fees, but they are charging a premium for non-Teslas to use the superchargers.

Do you have a source showing they are charging higher prices for non Teslas?

From the article: GM is also updating its brand apps to allow customers to search for available Superchargers, check station status, initiate a charge, and pay for charging sessions. Tesla has said that non-Tesla owners would have to pay a little more to charge their vehicles than Tesla owners.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#17

Post by tencentshill »

idontwantthis wrote: post #8
IncreasePosts wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No licensing fees, but they are charging a premium for non-Teslas to use the superchargers.

Do you have a source showing they are charging higher prices for non Teslas?

It's in the article: "Tesla has said that non-Tesla owners would have to pay a little more to charge their vehicles than Tesla owners."

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#18

Post by losvedir »

JanSolo wrote: post #7
flurie wrote: post #4

I'd seen some rumors that Tesla has been trying to slow down onboarding of other automakers to their charging network, so it's good to see information to the contrary. I still struggle to see how this ends up favorable for Tesla in the long run. They did not charge licensing fees for the connector, and even if they charge a premium to charge non-Tesla vehicles, now owners of Tesla vehicles are going to run into situa…

> I still struggle to see how this ends up favorable for Tesla in the long run. They're expanding their customer-base by maybe 2x or more. Those new customers will be be giving recurring payments to Tesla. For vehicles that Tesla didn't build. How is that not favourable?

Tesla doesn't break out the details, but I think it's generally understood among investors that they just break even on Supercharger. Their profit comes from their cars, and the Supercharger network was a competitive advantage to get people to buy the cars.

I think they opened up the Supercharger network to ensure that the US didn't establish CCS as the standard and overtake Superchargers, such that Teslas have a competitive dis -advantage, but I don't think they're particularly thrilled to have all these other companies using their chargers.

People seem to think they're raking it in with the Superchargers, but distributing electricity is a low margin business. Same with gas stations where the money mostly comes from the convenience store part of it and such.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#19

Post by phkahler »

>> Future GM vehicles will come with Tesla’s charging port natively installed.

This makes me happy. I worked on "standard" charging infrastructure for a while and those plugs are fv*king heavy and clunky by comparison. Also talked to an old Ford guy I worked with years ago who was involved in the standard development process - he seems content to "understand" what the politics and compromises were to the extent he couldn't look at the thing and say "this sucks". Going beyond the physical clunkiness: There is no reason to have a powerline PHY in there. None. It's stupid and costs extra and isn't even used on the high power conductors.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#20

Post by fiftyfifty »

flurie wrote: post #4

I'd seen some rumors that Tesla has been trying to slow down onboarding of other automakers to their charging network, so it's good to see information to the contrary. I still struggle to see how this ends up favorable for Tesla in the long run. They did not charge licensing fees for the connector, and even if they charge a premium to charge non-Tesla vehicles, now owners of Tesla vehicles are going to run into situa…

Tesla actually had $1.74 billion in revenue from its charging network in 2023, Bloomberg estimates that they probably made about 10% profits from that or $174 million. They are predicting that to grow to $7.4 billion in revenue by 2030. In my neck of the woods many of the Tesla superchargers I see are empty most of the time, presumably adding 3rd party vehicles is a way for Tesla to increase it's profits on their already built out network. Of course Tesla is still adding to their network but presumably as that investment decreases and the fact that they are charging more for non-Tesla vehicles, their profits will increase. It seems like it's turned into a nice little side business.

https://insideevs.com/news/715644/tesla-supercharger-network...

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