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Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

economist.com

421–429 of 429 posts

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s because the us has no pedestrian impact design requirements and people like grills.

How does either of those lead to less cargo volume for the same or larger length?

Lots of dead volume that isn't usable... unless you wanna smuggle drugs with these vehicles.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#422
post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could start with a list of things the rest of the world would need in order to emulate Tokyo, which basically means turning the entire world into a walk-able city only involving the temperate band hf the planet. If you would like me to hold your hand though generating this list of material and labor costs, I'm not going to do that. If you want me to put on a PM hat and give you a sample schedule and estimated cos…

You seem to not understand the point of this conversation. You admit Tokyo is a walkable city. And you think it’s impossible to convert existing infrastructure to be like Tokyo. The point of this conversation is existing infra is the way it is because of various influences and choices, some of which can be called “car culture.” Car culture is not a foregone conclusion. Claiming 100% of the world has to be converted t…

> The rest of the world can be like Tokyo, that's the important part.

Someone else said this. This isn't possible. Stop.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#423
post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to not understand the point of this conversation. You admit Tokyo is a walkable city. And you think it’s impossible to convert existing infrastructure to be like Tokyo. The point of this conversation is existing infra is the way it is because of various influences and choices, some of which can be called “car culture.” Car culture is not a foregone conclusion. Claiming 100% of the world has to be converted t…

> The rest of the world can be like Tokyo, that's the important part. Someone else said this. This isn't possible. Stop.

I agree that thinking the entire world could be replaced with Tokyo style infrastructure is incredibly unreasonable. But that’s a very fringe idea. And rejecting the rest of the conversation from that and thinking the entire conversation is about that just as silly. And frankly you haven’t even been able to engage enough to understand what they mean by it. For all you know they mean something much more reasonable than you’re imagining, but you’re so quick to jump to thought terminating cliches you can’t have a productive conversation. I don’t know why you bother to participate if you won’t participate. Try being curious and finding common ground, you might learn something.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does either of those lead to less cargo volume for the same or larger length?

Lots of dead volume that isn't usable... unless you wanna smuggle drugs with these vehicles.

"No pedestrian impact design requirements" --> no need to design in crumple zones --> less dead volume that isn't usable.

"People like grills" --> Flat two-dimensional decoration on the front surface --> How would that affect dead volume in the interior?

Your arguments aren't making sense to me.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#425
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're spinning Mustang off into a sub-brand, like Chrysler did for Imperial. We're set to get a Mustang "offroader" sometime in 2027, and there's rumblings of a mid-size CUV to slot below the full-size Mach-E. Marketing loves these rub-off schemes meant to give inferior or fledgling products some of the shine of a halo product. They almost always end up failing, and even when they don't they damage the halo product…

I think the marketing term is 'line extension'. It very rarely seems like a good idea. As you say, even if it makes money in the short term, it almost certainly loses money by damaging the brand in the long term.

Ah, but you admit there's a possibility of short term profit, and as you may know, that's what matters to decision makers.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First off, you're exaggerating. There is no place on earth that averages 40C for 3 months. Second,I live in Tokyo, where the summer has been miserable with average temperatures of 32C, with regular highs of 36+ with 80% humidity. And yet I walked and biked everywhere and was just fine, and that's true for most of the 40M people that live here as well. Third, it sounds like you live in a place that's not suitable for…

I didn't say average, and the highs are higher for many days. It sounds like you've never been in extreme heat, there's a huge difference between 89F and 110+F. More people are moving here than are leaving.

In Spain they use shutters and have siestas during the midday heat. Maybe don't try to shoehorn British culture into Spanish climate?

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there’s a lot of truth to this. Relatedly, it’s infuriating that American manufacturers are only interested in developing expensive, large, luxury EVs. We slapped a 100% tariff on cheap Chinese EVs… but our domestic companies refuse to develop a $20,000 compact EV! The cost of new cars in the US is insane. As is the protectionism of the industry. Give me cheap Japanese/Korean cars plzkthx.

The whole idea behind tariffs on Chinese products is that cheap prices will NOT be tolerated. The US is stuck with expensive cars for the foreseeable future.

That's what I tried to tell you folks. Good luck finding a car in the US that is under $20,000 these days because you won't find it: https://www.motor1.com/features/710453/cheap-cars-dead/

Related discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39731164

Dan Gillmor's thoughts: https://mastodon.social/@dangillmor/112102491028919681

THIS is why we need Chinese automakers to keep the pressure on these US and EU automakers to produce cheaper cars again.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is, what regulation? If you just try to ban or heavily tax larger vehicles, well, there are legitimate reasons to have those sometimes. Businesses need trucks and you don't want heavy taxes on innocent small businesses. Parents involved in school activities are regularly transporting entire sports teams etc. and putting a dozen kids in two vehicles is safer and more efficient than three or four vehicles.…

Off the top of my head - a large vehicle license, which comes with increased taxes or fees or something. Businesses that require those vehicles can pay it. And maybe we can even have waivers or something for small businesses, or non-profits, or households with 4+ kids.

> Businesses that require those vehicles can pay it.

This is not distinguishing between them at all, it's just adding a new tax that makes everything cost more.

> And maybe we can even have waivers or something for small businesses, or non-profits, or households with 4+ kids.

At which point everyone claims to be a small business. Also, if someone has one child rather than four, that doesn't mean they aren't regularly transporting that child's entire sports/drama/music group to events.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off the top of my head - a large vehicle license, which comes with increased taxes or fees or something. Businesses that require those vehicles can pay it. And maybe we can even have waivers or something for small businesses, or non-profits, or households with 4+ kids.

> Businesses that require those vehicles can pay it. This is not distinguishing between them at all, it's just adding a new tax that makes everything cost more. > And maybe we can even have waivers or something for small businesses, or non-profits, or households with 4+ kids. At which point everyone claims to be a small business. Also, if someone has one child rather than four, that doesn't mean they aren't regularly…

> it's just adding a new tax that makes everything cost more.

Yeah, this is how you discourage people. The license on top is super inconvenient too. I mean, who wants to go to the DMV and take a special test just for their ego booster?

> At which point everyone claims to be a small business

I imagine you have hard requirements, it's not like anyone can just say so.

> Also, if someone has one child rather than four, that doesn't mean they aren't regularly transporting that child's entire sports/drama/music group to events.

Okay. But are they? Because the situation we're in right now, currently, that we're trying to solve is that the average number of passengers in a vehicle is 1.5 and the majority of vehicles are SUVs and trucks.

I don't know, I guess those people can just pay the tax. Or, better yet, don't buy a vehicle to optimize for 1% of your driving time.

If this discourages car pooling, I say "meh". Car pooling is already basically not a thing, and pretty much all trucks can only hold 5 people. You know... the same amount of people as a compact sedan.

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