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Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

economist.com

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Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#261

Post by berikv »

xwall wrote: post #15

Key Ideas: Heavier vehicles are safer for their occupants but more dangerous for others: The weight of a vehicle is a critical factor in car crashes, with heavier vehicles causing more fatalities in other cars, pedestrians, and cyclists. The heaviest vehicles kill more people than they save: Analysis of crash data shows that for every life saved by the heaviest 1% of SUVs and trucks, more than a dozen lives are lost…

All of this. Plus the exhaust gasses and tire wear pollutants causing early deaths. The noise (bigger) cars make disrupting quiet places like parks and porches, balconies, bedrooms causing stress. The waste of used cars, often being transported to third world countries. Cars kill in so many ways, especially big cars.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#262

Post by snakeyjake »

imglorp wrote: post #36
PaulHoule wrote: post #3

I hate sounding like a broken record but my belief is that car makers are more excited about XXXXL cars in American than car buyers are. The media is consistently complicit in covering this up, sounding like the brainwashed soldiers in The Manchurian Candidate It's not to say that we don't like big cars because we do, but walk into a car dealership looking for a small car and they will tell you they are out of stock…

Some of us actively hate big cars for daily use and are angered at the "SUV" (usually neither sport nor utility) unithink forced on us, and are frustrated how hard it is to find anything different. I want basically an electric Miata for around town, can't get one. I also want an actual utility vehicle with a long, solid, roof rack to haul a canoe or sheet of plywood. SUV roof racks are usually token, if at all. A pla…

They make all of the cars you want except for the electric Miata which would sell in such low quantities that it would have to be priced higher than the Taycan to be viable. Nobody's spending $180k on a Mazda.

You just don't want them.

I have a Fiat Spider for fun, and a Volvo V60 wagon for utility. My wife is 5'3" and is taller, barely, than the V60.

The Spider is dead and the Miata is dying because global sales have tanked and Mazda's only selling 6-8,000 per year in the US.

The V60 is dying because almost everyone who says they want a station wagon is lying, either outright or to themselves, and they buy a compact SUV instead. Commenters will shout in all caps on the internet that NOBODY MAKES A STATION WAGON ANYMORE, walk onto a Volvo lot, right past the V60 and drive off in an XC60.

I imagine the A4 Allroad (also a station wagon that doesn't exist!) is also on life support.

And before you go on about price, Mazda, Honda, and Toyota all sold inexpensive wagons in the US until past the point that it became financially negligent for them to do so anymore.

Nobody wanted them.

Consumers weren't tricked, brainwashed, hoodwinked, scammed, or flabbergasted-- customers did not want them so they didn't buy them so manufacturers stopped selling them-- in the US at least, you can still buy inexpensive wagons, with manual transmissions, all over the rest of the world.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#263

Post by roughly »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #165
roughly wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Key Ideas: Heavier vehicles are safer for their occupants but more dangerous for others: The weight of a vehicle is a critical factor in car crashes, with heavier vehicles causing more fatalities in other cars, pedestrians, and cyclists. I'm actually curious how much of this danger is primarily to pedestrians and cyclists. On the margins, I'd expect in a crash a 6000lb vehicle with modern safety equipment to be saf…

Honestly, I don't think the weight of the car matters too much in an accident with a bicycle or pedestrian. I was hit a few times by cars at low speed (10-20 km/h) while riding my motorcycle and the weight of the car did not matter, when I was rear ended if the car was 20% (300 kg) lighter it would still be 4 times the mass of (me + bike), so the impact would be similar. A car versus a pedestrian is almost identical…

Yeah, I think the primary difference is the geometry - the SUVs and trucks present an almost flat surface and cause much more head and neck trauma - and in the visibility and controllability of the vehicle.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#264

Post by creer »

thallium205 wrote: post #260
creer wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They drive with a discipline / care that Americans refuse to even consider. Perhaps Americans should.

Germany is barely the size of New Mexico. Talk about an apples to orange comparison… Broken down by state, I’m sure there are states that are safer than Germany.

Classic American answer to everything. What does size have to do with anything? Besides well understood economies of scale which clearly would favor the US?

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#265

Post by doubled112 »

brendoelfrendo wrote: post #233
doubled112 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve had this conversation with many people before. When I had my first son, we upgraded from a Chevy Aveo5 to a Ford Focus. Everybody told me it was still much too small for a couple with a child. It’s a family sedan anywhere except North America. Go away.

This "family cars must be huge" take is a weird take, too. Can a Ford Focus fit a car seat? Yes! Then it's big enough for a couple with a child. I guess I'll add rear doors; even if a car seat would fit in the rear of a coupe, I wouldn't recommend that for anyone. If your family requires more than 4 seats on a regular basis, sure, get a minivan; but I don't understand the appeal of an F150 or other large vehicle as a…

Get this! We got TWO whole car seats in it!

Two children fit in the back of the Focus until we got rid of it. They were 6 and 9. By that point it got leas squishy because the car seats get smaller with age.

Littlest kid went behind the driver because it was stick.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#266

Post by tzs »

toddmorey wrote: post #57

Germany has a ratio of 3.9 deaths per 100,000 people, while America's ratio is 12.4 per 100,000—essentially 4x higher. And they have the autobahn. Not like they are driving slower.

Americans drive more, so if you want to compare the safety of the two systems it is better to look at deaths per vehicle-km. Germany has 4.2 deaths per billion vehicle-km. The United States has 6.9.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#267

Post by redwall_hp »

doubled112 wrote: post #111
Xenoamorphous wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just googled that car and apprently it’s nearly 5 meters long, longer than a BMW 3 Series, it’s funny that’s considered a small car over there because that’d be considered a big one over here (not even mid-sized). Over here: small is anything from a Smart to a Renault Twingo/Ford Fiesta/VW Polo. Medium: VW Golf, Ford Focus. Large: anything bigger than medium.

I’ve had this conversation with many people before. When I had my first son, we upgraded from a Chevy Aveo5 to a Ford Focus. Everybody told me it was still much too small for a couple with a child. It’s a family sedan anywhere except North America. Go away.

Growing up in the 90s, our family sedan for four people was a Dodge Spirit for awhile. I saw one a couple of years ago, and it's smaller than my Honda Fit.

Now people think they need some ridiculous GMC Yukon for their one kid they sometimes have in the car, though 90% of the time they're just commuting by themselves. Then they whine about gas prices.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#268

Post by zug_zug »

Xenoamorphous wrote: post #38
zug_zug wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally I'm having trouble finding certain small cars in stock (e.g. crown platinum) and suspect there is some self-interest in the dealership to explains this. I think car-buyers are often under an illusion that an suv is "more car" when actually it's exact same components and just a larger frame. They'd much prefer to sell you the high-margin product and pocket the difference.

Just googled that car and apprently it’s nearly 5 meters long, longer than a BMW 3 Series, it’s funny that’s considered a small car over there because that’d be considered a big one over here (not even mid-sized). Over here: small is anything from a Smart to a Renault Twingo/Ford Fiesta/VW Polo. Medium: VW Golf, Ford Focus. Large: anything bigger than medium.

> apprently it’s nearly 5 meters long, ???

3 inches longer than a Camry

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#269

Post by hermitcrab »

Tanoc wrote: post #156
ericjmorey wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mustang also comes in an SUV format now in addition to the sports car format.

They're spinning Mustang off into a sub-brand, like Chrysler did for Imperial. We're set to get a Mustang "offroader" sometime in 2027, and there's rumblings of a mid-size CUV to slot below the full-size Mach-E. Marketing loves these rub-off schemes meant to give inferior or fledgling products some of the shine of a halo product. They almost always end up failing, and even when they don't they damage the halo product…

I think the marketing term is 'line extension'. It very rarely seems like a good idea. As you say, even if it makes money in the short term, it almost certainly loses money by damaging the brand in the long term.

Re: Americans' love affair with big cars is killing them

#270

Post by hermitcrab »

imglorp wrote: post #36
PaulHoule wrote: post #3

I hate sounding like a broken record but my belief is that car makers are more excited about XXXXL cars in American than car buyers are. The media is consistently complicit in covering this up, sounding like the brainwashed soldiers in The Manchurian Candidate It's not to say that we don't like big cars because we do, but walk into a car dealership looking for a small car and they will tell you they are out of stock…

Some of us actively hate big cars for daily use and are angered at the "SUV" (usually neither sport nor utility) unithink forced on us, and are frustrated how hard it is to find anything different. I want basically an electric Miata for around town, can't get one. I also want an actual utility vehicle with a long, solid, roof rack to haul a canoe or sheet of plywood. SUV roof racks are usually token, if at all. A pla…

My kayak fits fine on the roof rack on top of my Skoda Octavia sedan.
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