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Long-term unemployment leads to disengagement and apathy

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Re: Long-term unemployment leads to disengagement and apathy

#101

Post by smegger001 »

gadflyinyoureye wrote: post #9
hackit2 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People use their job as an identity - and via extension some use religion, one of the lessons you learn later on in your life is that your identity isn't your job, achievements, money, anything. You identity shouldn't be dependent on any of those things.

While this does seem rather zen, what would it look like?

Defining yourself by what you enjoy in life, not what you do so you can afford it. I dont veiw myself as wage slave doing job X for a faceless heartless megacorp, instead veiw myself as a Father Husband, Gamer, Flyfisher and Bookworm that enjoys reading greek philosophy, ancient through medeviel history and science fiction and fantasy novels.

I came to this conclusion back in high school by just observing my workaholic father and grandfather. They when asked about themselves would talk about their job first. My grandfather gave everything for his employer moving around the country for his employer. In they kicked him to the curb when they felt the financial squeeze just a few years his before retirement, never mind he had devoted his life to them sacrificing his family life to them. And worked for them for over 40 years. My father is from the same bolt of cloth you ask him about himself and he starts talking about his job and what projects they are working on. When I was growing up he worked 80 hour weeks, now that his children are grown he work more. He deals with depression and burnout but is to afraid to quit. He complains of loneliness and lack or friend but spends all of his time working and is afraid or retiring even though stress from his job is killing him. Neither of them could see themselves separate from their occupation. Neither really got to do their hobbies or have a healthy social life or family life Seeing them growing I thought fuck that. I wont be my job and have been happier for it.

Re: Long-term unemployment leads to disengagement and apathy

#102

Post by BriggyDwiggs42 »

wegfawefgawefg wrote: post #68
naming_the_user wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, as someone who doesn't need to work on a daily basis (made enough in my 20s), extended periods of unemployment can quite easily lead me down a similar path to the one that the article describes. If you slip into a pattern of not waking up at a reasonable time, staying indoors and not exercising, not making attempts to socialise, etc, then it can be quite easy to throw your brain chemistry out of…

I save 90% of my income, and work freelance. My experience may be unusual but it has been the opposite. When I have a job time blurs togethor. I stop drawing, and exercising and learning math. Pressure builds. Eventually I finsh and that stage ends and a rennaissance begins. I am only a clear deep thinker when unemployed. When I am captured by the salient sense of daily responsibility and income, mental exercise is a…

Yep, I feel the same way. I focus on my music and feel far more satisfied when I’m not stuck spending lots of time on that sort of thing, which tends to make me feel tired and unmotivated all the time.

Re: Long-term unemployment leads to disengagement and apathy

#103

Post by BriggyDwiggs42 »

WalterBright wrote: post #97
anticensor wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having more than one "full time" remote job? Not your business policing that unless they actively causes reduced output or conflict in the work they do for your business.

Yeah, I've seen this debated at length numerous times here. If that is your opinion, you shouldn't object to productivity monitoring software installed on your work laptop. After all, you're being paid for your time.

You’re being paid for your labor. Your time is a proxy for that labor. If an employee can do two jobs at once, then let them without intrusive monitoring. If the intrusive monitoring is the only means of determining their output, then fine, but I’m gonna go ahead and guess that there’s less orwellian metrics, and that the primary motive for their introduction is to force more work out of already productive employees by making them self-police, panopticon style.

Re: Long-term unemployment leads to disengagement and apathy

#104

Post by BriggyDwiggs42 »

WalterBright wrote: post #72
HeatrayEnjoyer wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not systematically. The power dynamic isn't there.

[flagged]

Your loss is an expense, and an employee’s loss is the threat of homelessness. That’s the reason I find your perspective difficult to agree with. You’re holding the cards in these interactions.

Re: Long-term unemployment leads to disengagement and apathy

#105

Post by dasyatidprime »

gexla wrote: post #76
naming_the_user wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, as someone who doesn't need to work on a daily basis (made enough in my 20s), extended periods of unemployment can quite easily lead me down a similar path to the one that the article describes. If you slip into a pattern of not waking up at a reasonable time, staying indoors and not exercising, not making attempts to socialise, etc, then it can be quite easy to throw your brain chemistry out of…

> if you're poor and unable to find work, then you have all of that _on top of_ the financial stresses Add alcohol to the mix and you're cooked. An alcoholic in this state can take years to come back to some sense of functional. Or any other addictive drug. Not a nice spot to be. with or without the drugs.

Or something else downfall-magnifying like CPTSD!

Re: Long-term unemployment leads to disengagement and apathy

#106

Post by willcipriano »

Aurornis wrote: post #74
naming_the_user wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, as someone who doesn't need to work on a daily basis (made enough in my 20s), extended periods of unemployment can quite easily lead me down a similar path to the one that the article describes. If you slip into a pattern of not waking up at a reasonable time, staying indoors and not exercising, not making attempts to socialise, etc, then it can be quite easy to throw your brain chemistry out of…

> For what it's worth, as someone who doesn't need to work on a daily basis (made enough in my 20s), extended periods of unemployment can quite easily lead me down a similar path to the one that the article describes. When I was younger I missed the boat on a very successful local startup. The people who graduated a few years before me and joined the company at the right time exited with multi-million dollar equity.…

Could it be that the people still in the workforce can't afford to have a unhappy public face?

I work and have similar problems like you have listed but I have to pretend I'm a smiling person to remain employed.

Re: Long-term unemployment leads to disengagement and apathy

#107

Post by em-bee »

BriggyDwiggs42 wrote: post #103
WalterBright wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I've seen this debated at length numerous times here. If that is your opinion, you shouldn't object to productivity monitoring software installed on your work laptop. After all, you're being paid for your time.

You’re being paid for your labor. Your time is a proxy for that labor. If an employee can do two jobs at once, then let them without intrusive monitoring. If the intrusive monitoring is the only means of determining their output, then fine, but I’m gonna go ahead and guess that there’s less orwellian metrics, and that the primary motive for their introduction is to force more work out of already productive employees…

If an employee can do two jobs at once

nobody can work 16 hours a day and be focused all the time. heck, most people can't even do 8 hours of focused work. i am not paying you to sit on a chair, but to actually pay attention. if you do two full time jobs, you are not doing the work at the required focus.

sure, there may be jobs where that doesn't matter, and there are jobs that are paid full time but aren't actually full time jobs. like a sysadmin in a small company, where our boss told him that his job was to keep the servers running. if he has nothing to do he is welcome to goof off. and in such a job he could also have used the free time to do side jobs, or a second job.

but for most jobs it does matter that you are focused working for the whole time, and if i find out that an employee is doing a second full time job then i will be very much concerned at that persons effectiveness.

Re: Long-term unemployment leads to disengagement and apathy

#108

Post by advael »

crooked-v wrote: post #41
wakawaka28 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of my comment clearly didn't register. I'm not arguing any technical point about this study but the more obvious point that the more you work, the less poor you are. People who aren't looking for work usually aren't counted as unemployed, which would additionally contribute to the obvious outcome that working is inversely correlated with poverty. The causality (making money makes you less poor) is as obviou…

You're arguing with sarcasm.

Who knows, it seems equally plausible that the argumentation lead to my posts being sarcastic in retrospect. There's just no way to tell these things!

Re: Long-term unemployment leads to disengagement and apathy

#109

Post by BriggyDwiggs42 »

em-bee wrote: post #107
BriggyDwiggs42 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re being paid for your labor. Your time is a proxy for that labor. If an employee can do two jobs at once, then let them without intrusive monitoring. If the intrusive monitoring is the only means of determining their output, then fine, but I’m gonna go ahead and guess that there’s less orwellian metrics, and that the primary motive for their introduction is to force more work out of already productive employees…

If an employee can do two jobs at once nobody can work 16 hours a day and be focused all the time. heck, most people can't even do 8 hours of focused work. i am not paying you to sit on a chair, but to actually pay attention. if you do two full time jobs, you are not doing the work at the required focus. sure, there may be jobs where that doesn't matter, and there are jobs that are paid full time but aren't actually…

Can you measure their performance? If so, I assume you expect a certain volume of work from your employees. If they keep up with that volume without paying their full attention, why is that your problem? If they aren’t doing their jobs it’s a completely different story, and I don’t blame you for your worry, but frankly what business of yours is it how they get the job done IF they do it to your desired standard? I’m sure they aren’t having fun doing 16 hours of work, but they’ve got bills to pay.

Re: Long-term unemployment leads to disengagement and apathy

#110

Post by orwin »

advael wrote: post #15

I know it's important to do science that comes to obvious conclusions, but sometimes the interiority-centric framework of psychology seems comically ill-fit for topics like this In most countries in the world, money is what allows you to have any control over your life. For most people who aren't already rich, their having money relies on being employed, and we tend not to describe people who don't work because they'…

I disagree with that. I know a handful of persons who are 'unemployed' in the sense that they don't work for money, and don't have money at all (most of them I met in a natural squat, NDDL, and some are still living the life at 40-50 in what is called 'ecolieux' in my country). They're still the happiest persons I know, even the two sober ones (no weed nor alcohol, for hippies, feel weird, but they have more time for music. And sex I guess).

They still work for the ecolieux: prepare food, care for vegetables, fruits and poultry, odd jobs, but they aren't paid for it.

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