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EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

digitalcourage.social

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Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#241

Post by tzs »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #174
chii wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> terrorist ... CSAM it's always the terrorists and the children. It turns off the logical, rational thought centers in the brain, and convinces ordinarily rational people to accept these poorly thoughtout security measures. As a civid duty, you must fight against measures like these that erode security and privacy. It sucks, because the reward is "nothing", and you must forever maintain vigilence against constant re…

Even if that argument somehow statistically works/worked, sometimes it should be mentioned: I would rather have some 3 terror attacks more per year, than having privacy of millions invaded and our way of living destroyed, just to prevent those 3 cases. It would be letting the actual terrorists determin how we live, what rights and privacy we are allowed to have.

> I would rather have some 3 terror attacks more per year, than having privacy of millions invaded and our way of living destroyed, just to prevent those 3 cases.

End to end encrypted chat for the general public has only been available for ~15 years. On the web, SSL is ~30 years old. PGP is ~35 years old.

As far as I can tell people's way of living now is largely the same as it was back before any of those were around, so I don't see how it would destroy our way of living if much of that went away.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#242

Post by stiltzkin »

aussieguy1234 wrote: post #5

This could be abused in any number of ways and would probably make people and their precious children less safe in the long run rather than more safe. You can be sure Viktor Orban would use it to crack down on political opposition in Hungary, for example. In the wrong hands, could be used to have these precious children or their parents killed or worse. Authoritarian governments often do things, or threaten to do thi…

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Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#243

Post by stiltzkin »

janice1999 wrote: post #149
pelorat wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hitlers rise to power can be attributed to free speech, which is why saying some things, and promoting some things, will land you in prison in places like Germany.

The fascists literally murdered journalists and burned down newspapers critical of them on their rise to power. I suggest checking out this podcast on "How The Liberal Media Helped Fascism Win". The issue was not too much free speech. https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236...

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Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#244

Post by smegger001 »

chii wrote: post #29
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #2

And it will never disappear from the agenda. Chat control is widely popular among some influential parts of the population. After the attempted terrorist attack in Vienna for the Taylor Swift concert the topic didn’t leave Austrian media. A lot of parents are in favor of this independently of terrorism because of fear of CSAM. There is an awful lot of lobbying going on and given history of EU regulation this can only…

> terrorist ... CSAM it's always the terrorists and the children. It turns off the logical, rational thought centers in the brain, and convinces ordinarily rational people to accept these poorly thoughtout security measures. As a civid duty, you must fight against measures like these that erode security and privacy. It sucks, because the reward is "nothing", and you must forever maintain vigilence against constant re…

terrorist, then pedos, then drug(dealers|addicts), then "criminals". and finally used openly on everyone after all when the average person going about their business inadvertently commits an average of three felonies per day we are all criminals.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#245

Post by aaomidi »

aguaviva wrote: post #220
aaomidi wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you agree with OP. Just say it’s to stop Russia.

The point here is -- it's not like the threat from Russia isn't (unlike the hypothetical threat from terrorists) entirely real.

Threat from terrorist isn’t real?

All of these are real threats. Even the CSAM arguments have a grain of truth to it. What changes overtime is people’s relationship to these threats and their perception of what mitigating factors are actually going to be effective

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#246

Post by aaomidi »

sevnin wrote: post #223
aaomidi wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you agree with OP. Just say it’s to stop Russia.

No I disagree, what are you even refering to? What are these particular actions?, curiously we never refer to russian actions as anti-ukrainian, anti-polish, anti-european. Its always the other way round.

I think you should go read the comment chain again.

The person was saying that you can use a “Russia” line to get the population to agree to a measure or chat control.

You just went in and basically proved their point.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#247

Post by Wytwwww »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #115
mrtksn wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny enough, that's actually a sound proposal and is "somewhat" implemented as high ranking officials are expected to always be with someone documenting their acts. It is usually considered scandalous when they ditch their translator or secretary and talk with other high ranking officials in complete secrecy. It makes all the sense to have politicians %100 monitored %100 of the time. Store it in encrypted blackbox a…

Let's be fair, in a real democracy, there would be no government secrets... I mean.. we're paying for all that, we need to know. Imagine being an owner of a company, and having some middle managers talking stuff in secret and saying that you don't need to know stuff, just let them use the money, and you don't even get to see the contracts.

That would be nice but it would put you at a significant disadvantage compared to authoritarian/totalitarian states which would certainly have very terrible consequences.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#248

Post by Wytwwww »

caseyy wrote: post #13
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #2

And it will never disappear from the agenda. Chat control is widely popular among some influential parts of the population. After the attempted terrorist attack in Vienna for the Taylor Swift concert the topic didn’t leave Austrian media. A lot of parents are in favor of this independently of terrorism because of fear of CSAM. There is an awful lot of lobbying going on and given history of EU regulation this can only…

On the other hand, there are EU countries like Lithuania, which have a very privacy-conscious culture, and have not had any meaningful terror attacks for nearly all their history. The last notable one was 30 years ago[0]. No one died. In Lithuania, privacy is quite meaningfully enshrined in its constitution[1]. I remember that Google StreetView faced significant regulatory challenges in simply photographing people’s…

> In Lithuania, privacy is quite meaningfully enshrined in its constitution[1].

You do realize that Lithuania is supporting chat control?

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#250

Post by g9yuayon »

heckelson wrote: post #132

The worst thing about this is that we the citizens have to fight this every time, but if this just passes one single time we may lose our rights on this issue forever.

Funny that some also argue that it is why the left, no matter how extreme they are, often win in the end. The left keeps fighting, always trying to change the status quo. If a legislation attempt fails this year, they will just try again the next year. Year over year, whoever keeps fighting wins. In contrast, conservatives just want to be left alone, therefore the conservatives lose often.
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