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EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

digitalcourage.social

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Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#221

Post by starspangled »

pelorat wrote: post #120
starspangled wrote: post #78

Strange that these European utopias seem to be on the edge of collapsing into civil conflicts if the plebs are permitted to communicate with one another without government supervision.

Hitlers rise to power can be attributed to free speech, which is why saying some things, and promoting some things, will land you in prison in places like Germany.

Even if that were true, it can be attributed to lots of things. The ruling class's wars and economic mismanagement, common people feeling disenfranchised and abandoned by politcs, for some examples. In a real utopia it is those things that would be changed, not the peoples' ability to communicate without government eavesdropping on them.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#222

Post by Eumenes »

I wouldn't be surprised if the US intelligence apparatus was pushing for this. There is a giant censorship industry in the US, despite the 1st amendment, mostly via NGOs/non-profits. Great way to circumvent the constitution.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#223

Post by sevnin »

aaomidi wrote: post #207
sevnin wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anti-russian? Russia is a major security threat to Lithuania that engages in cyber warfare, disinformation and sabotage campaigns. - Two months ago there were major arson attacks and failed attempts linked to Russians in multiple states like Poland and Germany. - Russian linked agents at the beginning of school year dissiminated false information about bombs being planted at schools in Lithuania which disrupted the p…

So you agree with OP. Just say it’s to stop Russia.

No I disagree, what are you even refering to? What are these particular actions?, curiously we never refer to russian actions as anti-ukrainian, anti-polish, anti-european. Its always the other way round.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#224

Post by mrtksn »

dandanua wrote: post #213
poincaredisk wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You assume a lot of bad intent where there is (usualy) none. I worked with people related to cybercrime investigation a lot, and they are always driven by idea to help people. But when you see for a hundredth time that a struggling single mother loses her life savings because she fell victim to a phishing scam, you start being angry at the criminals. And when you invest months of your life to locate the perpetrator,…

> a struggling single mother loses her life savings because she fell victim to a phishing scam I thought the banking system was designed to reverse transactions (unlike cryptocurrencies). Why do you need finding the scammer for that?

Scammers don't keep their money in the account they used to scam people into wiring their money in. A common case is to use other people's accounts(sometimes stolen, sometimes rented) or purchase something like crypto, gold or anything else that is expensive and easy to move.

Often times the seller also doesn't know they are selling to a scammer, there's this technique where the scammers will give the account number of a seller to their victim, the victim will wire the money and the scammers at the same time will be pretending to be buyers and claim that they just wired the money and therefore the transaction is complete and they leave with the scammed money laundered in form of something valuable.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#225

Post by vetinari »

buran77 wrote: post #140
vetinari wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your family and friends know, what is best for them and can vote for themselves. Meanwhile, you are abroad and do not have clear idea about the local situation; you are going to have one of game of telephone one (I know, I also lived abroad for a while). As a result, you might do more damage than helping.

> you are abroad and do not have clear idea about the local situation You're walking a path you're almost guaranteed not properly equipped for. Probably nobody is but knowing not to charge ahead would already mean a lot. If having a clear idea about the local situation is a prerequisite then what happens with locals exposed to misinformation? Do they lose the right to vote? Do you test people in advance to evaluate t…

Slow down, you are taking it way to seriously, and skipped to another rail already.

Nobody ever even remotely suggested to go where you describe. That when you live abroad you are not familiar with local situation is a fact; you get to hear only partial, selected info. Maybe you should try it sometime. I did.

> What happens if you're abroad but coming back in a year and are expected to live with a bad situation you could have helped avoid? Can you claim "sorry, I wasn't allowed to vote so the rules don't apply to me"? What about when you live abroad but (some of) the laws of your home country in which you're not allowed to vote still apply to you?

Here, again on another track.

Nobody is ever going to figure out, when you live when you vote. The difference is showing up in the polling station inside the country or not. I.e. with not being able to vote via mail or embassy.

Again, in our country, we have several different elections (just like in other countries). But in some, you have to vote locally, in others, you can do via correspondence. So when all of them are local only, no harm done. If you can bring your ass to the polling station, that's enough. Nobody is taking your right to vote, it is on you to decide, whether it is worth to you to exercise your right, or not.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#226

Post by dns_snek »

lofaszvanitt wrote: post #205
dns_snek wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would help whom and to achieve what? How do we know they're not lying? And how do those numbers justify irreversible surveillance of everyone's most private thoughts? A terrorist organization isn't going to use Facebook Messenger to discuss their plans, they'll use a vetted application that doesn't have a backdoor.

[flagged]

What you wrote sounds like an argument in favor of propaganda. If you're not prepared to defend it then don't comment at all.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#227

Post by vetinari »

simion314 wrote: post #206
buran77 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you are abroad and do not have clear idea about the local situation You're walking a path you're almost guaranteed not properly equipped for. Probably nobody is but knowing not to charge ahead would already mean a lot. If having a clear idea about the local situation is a prerequisite then what happens with locals exposed to misinformation? Do they lose the right to vote? Do you test people in advance to evaluate t…

My initial comment was not clear, by I am referring of Hungarian citizens that are part of other countries like Romania, this people do not have relatives in Hungary, never lived there, will not move there.

Is it still a thing? AFAIK the neighbor countries protested against it as a passport of convenience. Some even made laws, that when you accept such a citizenship, you are going to lose your previous one. That curbed the enthusiasm for such citizenship rather significantly.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#228

Post by vetinari »

wkat4242 wrote: post #216
vetinari wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he uses the votes from Hungarians outside Hungary That is pretty standard for EU voting; as long as you are citizen, you can vote, usually by mail or by visiting your embassy. Otherwise, I happen to agree with you -- why you should vote, if you don't feel the impact of your vote? > the people in cities are not voting for him That's the common occurrence, people in cities are easier to influence due to density; US a…

Yeah I wish that within the EU we could just vote for the country we live in rather than the one we were born in. It would make so much more sense.

You can, in the communnal (local) elections.

For the parliamentary, it is here for a reason. To prevent voting touristic. The delay of several years -- you have to live several years in the other country -- serves exactly that.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#229

Post by vetinari »

simion314 wrote: post #208
vetinari wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he uses the votes from Hungarians outside Hungary That is pretty standard for EU voting; as long as you are citizen, you can vote, usually by mail or by visiting your embassy. Otherwise, I happen to agree with you -- why you should vote, if you don't feel the impact of your vote? > the people in cities are not voting for him That's the common occurrence, people in cities are easier to influence due to density; US a…

>Yes, this is what the (modern|progressive|educated|whatever) tell to themselves to fell on high horse in their bubble. Right, the peasants with no education and only watching state TV are clearly the ones without a bias, their children that went to university, got a good job, know english are the one brainwashed by CIA/Israel and the evil LGBTQ. I read so many cases of educated Hungarians or Russians ashamed of the…

Yes, because the friculins (as in free-cool-in) in their reddit bubbles are so much more clever.

Case in point; any discussion involving policits here, on hn. Politologs are face palming at the naivety, when they see an extract.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#230

Post by lofaszvanitt »

dns_snek wrote: post #226
lofaszvanitt wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What you wrote sounds like an argument in favor of propaganda. If you're not prepared to defend it then don't comment at all.

You know the answer to your previous questions, then why ask it in the first place.
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