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Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

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Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#831

Post by burnte »

tuatoru wrote: post #706
burnte wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because some things like terrorism and child sex abuse are harms to society as a whole, and even private individuals have an obligation to help combat them. Durov has a service where by design it's hard to filter out that kind of activity, and he's effectively (if not explicitly) helping protect that activity.

So is France going to arrest the owners of HP, because their printers can't filter out CSAM?

If you think one person printing out CSAM on a printer one page at a time is the same as running a service that facilitates tens of thousands of people to trade CSAM, there's nothing I can say to explain it to you.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#832

Post by throw_m239339 »

intunderflow wrote: post #78

France was the country of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen, and now you have an autocracy in a semi-democratic vest: - All protests in support of Palestine banned https://www.politico.eu/article/france-gerald-darmanin-aims-... - Head coverings banned - Run a messaging app but the French state finds stuff on it that it disapproves of? You are a Terrorist It's sad to see this backsliding in Europ…

> - All protests in support of Palestine banned

False

> - Head coverings banned

Absolutely untrue.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#833

Post by CodeWriter23 »

LinuxBender wrote: post #812
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aware of what? Government says a file is illegal? Sounds like a censorship regime to me.

Aware of what? Government says a file is illegal? Sounds like a censorship regime to me. Not if the key is provided to the platform operators to confirm the contents. Otherwise yes anyone could claim any encrypted file contains illicit material and people would game that system. For what it's worth the key may not need to be manually shared to the provider as referrers often leak where people learned about the file a…

ICYMI > users to a private forum on Platform B

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#834

Post by LinuxBender »

CodeWriter23 wrote: post #833
LinuxBender wrote: post #812

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aware of what? Government says a file is illegal? Sounds like a censorship regime to me. Not if the key is provided to the platform operators to confirm the contents. Otherwise yes anyone could claim any encrypted file contains illicit material and people would game that system. For what it's worth the key may not need to be manually shared to the provider as referrers often leak where people learned about the file a…

ICYMI > users to a private forum on Platform B

Often is the case but I would still suggest setting the referrer policy should the file be enticing enough for people to register an account assuming forum ranks and further actions are not part of the picture.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#835

Post by Timber-6539 »

xorcist wrote: post #766
Timber-6539 wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot audit the system/service logs for those servers, neither can you audit the hardware running those servers, nor the internet providers who can snoop on the traffic et al... That's the argument behind "Open source server" in case it wasn't clear.

This might be where the misunderstanding is. This software is indeed server software that anyone can run, and the global network consists of servers run by many independent entities, in many cases with full control of the hardware. One of these entities can be you, and it is completely possible to run from home. The integrity of your conversation with someone would then depend on both your endpoints, clients, and the…

No misunderstanding at all. The argument is very clear.

> global network consists of servers run by many independent entities

This is not the case for all the popular chat apps including Signal which uses centralized servers which they run themselves. They clearly see little benefit from this distributed independent server model.

And even that doesn't mean the server is open source.

As I explained earlier if you cannot audit the physical server you are connected to, claiming it's open source is useless. FYI that's literally how the term open source was used in this context!

> The integrity of your conversation with someone would then depend on both your endpoints, clients, and the respective server.

Client to client verification simply works and eliminates the need to also "verify" the server which if compromised introduces an even higher risk of contamination in the trust model (too many co-dependent functions are delegated to the server), not to mention collusion in establishing integrity of yet another device that we need to trust.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#836

Post by eviks »

dralley wrote: post #827
eviks wrote: post #761

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't find a lot of sense in speculating about why or why it didn't happen Yet you've started your comment with a strong speculation on why (and it's also a bit naive to presume such things are surfaced during trial)

It's not speculation if that's literally what the charges are, as per the court documents.

It is, why do you think this is needed otherwise?

> as that will presumably be surfaced during the trial itself

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#838

Post by maqp »

djaouen wrote: post #818
maqp wrote: post #786

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram was never properly end-to-end encrypted. The way this works is Telegram client sends stuff to the server over client-server encryption. The service provider stores it on server's disk in Netherlands. Since Netherlands is not US, to NSA's hacking team Tailored Access Operations, hacking the server is considered 'fair game', i.e. there are no restrictions. When they hack the server they can read the life of 90…

> When they hack the server they can read the life of 900,000,000 telegram users. It's that simple. [Edit: undo blunder] I have now come to realize (based on [1]) that Telegram's platform was not secure by default, nullifying my arguments here. This discussion has also led me to question the viability of one of my own projects, as it, too, encrypts at disadvantageous points in the pipeline. Hmmm. Sorry for my mistake…

Thanks for owning up :)

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#839

Post by int_19h »

mindslight wrote: post #806
coliveira wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If his was really true for banks there would be a large number of bankers in jail. This number being close to zero, I guess the courts are very lax at charging bankers for crimes.

Banks are a terrible example for this thread's argument. Banking is essentially the end result of what happens when businesses kowtow to the invasive demands of the government, implement ever-more invasive content policing, becoming de facto arms of the bureaucratic state. A bank will drop you if they even think you might be doing something (demonstrably on paper) illegal. When opening an account, some of the very fi…

From personal experience, the bank will drop you for having a relative with a name that happens to match someone on the "bad guy" list.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#840

Post by OfficeChad »

asdf6969 wrote: post #353
marcinzm wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because those providers cooperate with authorities and moderate their content to a fairly large degree?

Why don’t they arrest telecom CEOs for allowing terrorists to have uncensored phone calls with each other?

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