Really embarrassing being European nowadays.
You're still free to leave - advantage us.
And 'us' can be read as is, or capitalised.
Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
771–780 of 878 posts
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#772By this logic the hardware manufacturers or even almighty God can be found responsible. God should have stopped them.
My impression is that the arrest has to do with telegrams failure to cooperate with law enforcement. Hardware manufactorers don't generally have the ability to monitor and moderate what their product is used for. I guess one could imagine a hardware manufactorer being arrested for refusing to turn over a log of sales or similar.
Obviously god has no such restriction, but he's probably outside French jurisdiction, and i don't think they have an extradition deal in place.
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#773Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why are you assuming tech savy people care primarily about end-to-end encryption?
Maybe because tech-savvy people understand the need and importance of encryption? There's of course always the exceptions that say they don't care about privacy, but that is fortunately usually a small group, at least in the tech-savvy world.
Both tech savvies and laypeople expect private/encrypted messaging app to provide the basic property that only the sender and the intended recipients can read it. This is achieved with end-to-end encryption. Techies know the term, and can understand it's not present. Non-tech people don't understand, and just rely on word-of-mouth that it's super secure, when it's not.
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#774Earlier quoted context omitted.
I use telegram for some group chats, but I'm not sure why tech-savvy people would like it so much – messages are not end-to-end encrypted which makes it an inferior choice compared to even whatsapp
Hot take: E2EE is overrated! Almost all conversations that most people have are benign. I used telegram to follow journalists (essentially as a twitter replacement), how would E2EE benefit my use case?
Yeah no shit. But sharing cute cat pics deserve human right to privacy. Also, when everything is E2EE, that reduces the metadata about when you say something private. You don't want your opt-in encryption to reveal metadata about how close you are to someone.
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#775Earlier quoted context omitted.
Telegram is not E2E encrypted.
so i should be liable if it is a plain text messaging github side project?
This is a horrible analogy, is your side project giving free cloud hosting of up to 1.5GB files for 900 million users with no moderation? Yeah, if it is you should go to jail too if you didn't address the issue of CSAM there for a decade.
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#776Earlier quoted context omitted.
This would imply that just E2EEing everything would give you a free pass not to moderate anything, which seems very naive. I doubt the judges would care about their self-imposed technological limitations.
If I sell shovels, it's not a self-imposed techical limitation that I don't have a way to detect and prevent anyone from doing something illegal with a shovel. Even after the technological means exist to include an intetnet connected spy device in every shovel. Secure message passing is no different. The "shovel", the thing one might sell, is just the application of some math which does something and not any of the i…
It's not a shovel he's selling. It's aching to hosting a gallery portraying disgusting crimes done to actual children. Digital or ink, Durov can't just go behind freedom of speech in this matter.
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#777This is what happens when you refuse to hand over the keys.
What a sad way to try to infer this has anything to do with Telegram being so secure Durov has to be arrested, when its really about Durov letting CSAM sit on his servers for a decade.
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#778Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you, please, elaborate? Wasn't it their main feature and the selling point?
Telegram e2ee FAQ covers the nuances https://tsf.telegram.org/manuals/e2ee-simple
Let's get a professional cryptographer without vested interest in the matter to give that assessment
https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2024/08/25/telegram...
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#779Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#780Earlier quoted context omitted.
What are the downsides to telegram providing default E2EE? Seems like a no brainer to have it as a default feature for the product.
I think they don't support cross-device syncing or automatic backups of E2EE chats, so it's about minimising friction by default. Telegrams main focus is UX, unlike Signal which prioritizes security at the expense of UX.
There's nothing in Telegram that couldn't be implemented with security in mind. They just lack the expertise in designing cryptographic protocols that offer those features, and Durov is too proud to consult experts in helping improve the design. Well, now he gets to enjoy French hospitality.