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Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

blog.cryptographyengineering.com

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Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#461

Post by panja »

icepat wrote: post #141
tamimio wrote: post #9

It’s not encrypted by default, and even if it were encrypted, you should never trust any connected device with anything important. That being said, Telegram is hands down the best communication platform right now. It is feature-rich, with features implemented years ago that are only now being added to other platforms. It has normal chatting/video calls, groups, channels, and unlimited storage in theory, all for free.…

What's in Telegram that you don't see in Signal? Honest question, I only use Signal rather than Telegram.

Cross-device message history for me. I can go back to my very first message sent. Signal to this day sucks for message history.

Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#462

Post by qwertox »

sroerick wrote: post #295
qwertox wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? I think Google suggests that you send the payload encrypted through the notification. Google then only knows which app to send the message to, they don't know from whom the message originates (only "a Telegram server") nor what the content is. Also, you could just send a notification instructing the app to fetch a new message from your server. From the docs: Encryption for data messages The Android Transport Lay…

Assuming an adversarial relationship, what sort of metadata could Google capture simply knowing which app was sending the notifications and who was receiving them?

"A Telegram server used FCM to send a message of size X to the device owned by individual Y at this timestamp and this IP address".

Nothing else.

Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#463

Post by refurb »

macintux wrote: post #182
codetrotter wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I enroll my personal iPhone in MDM myself? And if I can have MDM with just my personal phone, do I need to buy some kind of subscription for it from Apple? Or pay some third-party? I thought MDM was only for enterprise businesses and schools and universities, but I may very well be mistaken about that.

Apple supplies a free application for managing MDM. https://support.apple.com/guide/apple-configurator-mac/welco...

This saved me one time when I was gifted an Apple TV without a remote.

No way to add a WiFi profile, thus no way to use an iPhone as a remote. No ethernet available either.

Configured a WiFi profile, uploaded to the Apple TV and could finalize the setup.

It’s quite a powerful too for initial setup.

Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#464

Post by umbra07 »

EGreg wrote: post #102
jazzyjackson wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I downvoted for whataboutism

I respect someone who downvotes and explains why. I wish the downvote button would require at least a private message to the person of why they are being downvoted. (Upvote could have an optional message). Otherwise it's the most toxic feature on HN as it promotes extreme groupthink activism.

A public message seems better. There's zero accountability in private messages - you can just smash your keyboard. You can't leave such a message if it's public.

Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#465

Post by po »

schmichael wrote: post #417
wkat4242 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the answer is yes then law enforcement can too. Is it technically possible for them to see it: yes Does Telegram let them see it: I don't think so. That seems to be the core issue around Durov being arrested. They probably should implement E2EE for everything. Then they will have a good excuse not to cooperate, because they simply don't have the data.

> Does Telegram let them see it: I don't think so. This is exceptionally naive. Even if he was arrested for not sharing with the French, what about for other countries? Was he arrested for not ever sharing or not sharing enough? Even if he, personally, has never shared, that doesn’t say anything about his employees who have the same access to these systems. Your data is not private with Telegram. You are trusting Tel…

Following the St. Petersburg attack, the Federal Security Service (FSB), in an event that may ring somewhat familiar to many in the United States and Europe, asked Telegram for encryption keys to decode the dead attacker’s messages. Telegram said it couldn’t give the keys over because it didn’t have them. In response, Russia’s internet and media regulator said the company wasn’t complying with legal requirements. The court-ordered ban on accessing Telegram from within Russia followed shortly thereafter. Telegram did, though, enact a privacy policy in August 2018 where it could hand over terror suspects’ user information (though not encryption keys to their messages) if given a court order.

...

... Pavel Durov, Telegram’s founder, called on Russian authorities on June 4 to lift the ban. He cited ongoing Telegram efforts to significantly improve the removal of extremist propaganda from the platform in ways that don’t violate privacy, such as setting a precedent of handing encryption keys to the FSB.

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/whats-...

Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#466

Post by [deleted] »

mfiro wrote: post #175

In my opinion, Telegram is more of a social network than a messenger. There are many useful channels and in many countries, it plays an important role in sharing information. If we look at it from this point of view, e2ee does not seem very important. We should also not forget that, in the time when all social media (Reddit, X, Instagram etc.) close their APIs, Telegram is one of the only networks that still has a fr…

[deleted]

Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#468

Post by Canada »

Let's stop repeating this word "moderate" when what we're talking about is censorship.

Moderation is what happens here on HN: Admins have some policies to keep the conversation on track, users voluntarily submit to them.

Censorship is when a third party uses coercion to force admins to submit to them and remove posts against their will.

Durov has been arrested for refusing to implement censorship, not for anything concerning moderation.

Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#469

Post by vaylian »

mfiro wrote: post #175

In my opinion, Telegram is more of a social network than a messenger. There are many useful channels and in many countries, it plays an important role in sharing information. If we look at it from this point of view, e2ee does not seem very important. We should also not forget that, in the time when all social media (Reddit, X, Instagram etc.) close their APIs, Telegram is one of the only networks that still has a fr…

What is your definition of a social network?

Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

#470

Post by tcfhgj »

medo-bear wrote: post #445
wkat4242 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the answer is yes then law enforcement can too. Is it technically possible for them to see it: yes Does Telegram let them see it: I don't think so. That seems to be the core issue around Durov being arrested. They probably should implement E2EE for everything. Then they will have a good excuse not to cooperate, because they simply don't have the data.

> They probably should implement E2EE for everything Certainly not because then Telegram would lose alot of its functionality that makes it great. One thing that I really enjoy about Telegram is that I can have it open and synched across many independent devices. Telegram also has e2e as an option on some clients which cant be synched

You can sync messages across many independent devices despite e2ee.

Matrix has been doing that for years

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