Telegram is not Signal, it is a waaay better Discord
Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?
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Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?
#92Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?
#93that gives a better explanation on why telegram is safer in real world settings than whastapp or other popular messengers: https://x.com/Pinboard/status/1474096410383421452
Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?
#94If telegrams encryption is so bad why is Pavel Durov under arrest? The arrest cites that he was not cooperating with authorities to crack down on various drug illegal activities on telegram. None of the other social networks have their ceos arrested. Is it simply that telegram is the only one without backdoors for five eyes? It seems to me the secret chat feature actually works too well?
Read this: https://fortune.com/crypto/2024/06/27/telegram-dark-net-blac... Telegram channels are public, unencrypted web shops for all kinds of illegal goods. I guess the French government alleges that Durov is not doing enough to stop these activities on his platform. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with encryption.
It indirectly has a lot to do with encryption, in that if Telegram was actually encrypted, they'd probably have no grounds on holding him in the first place.
(At least at the moment, in most countries) it's not illegal to not ship a backdoor in your end-to-end-encrypted software upon government request, but in most it is illegal to not share data you're holding in a form accessible to you when you receive a warrant for it.
Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?
#95It is weirdly fascinating that this question has to be answered on a semi-regular basis. I am not sure if it is more of an insight into humans, ephemeral nature of software or concern that something major has changed.
I think it’s helpful because, as the author says, Telegram put effort into making you think it’s secure and Signal isn’t. As someone who's not close to this, it’s handy to have regular reminders.
Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?
#96Telegram offers end-to-end encryption in the same way that McDonalds offers salads.
Expired from the day before, but with a fresh date sticker on it?
Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?
#97I am null at cryptography but thie following does not sound too bad as a default tbh. And I think it is misleading to focus solely on e2ee and not mention the distributed aspect. https://telegram.org/faq#q-do-you-process-data-requests > To protect the data that is not covered by end-to-end encryption, Telegram uses a distributed infrastructure. Cloud chat data is stored in multiple data centers around the globe that…
Maybe hijack the key and message before it gets distributed. Or just get after the pieces themselves if they are from Chinese or Russian authorities. Or just threaten to close the local data center if they do not collect the pieces from elsewhere, see if they can be convinced to hand over what they have, regardless where they put it.
We can be null in cryptography, but handing over both the secret and the key to this secret to the very same person is quite a trustful step, even when they say 'I promise I will not peek or let others peek, pinky promise!' - with an 'except if we have to or if we change our mind' in the small prints or between the lines.
Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Obviously if your phone is compromised your e2ee chat is not safe. Pretty much, a lot of people think that seeing E2EE means everything is safe, which I believe gives a false sense of security. You can have your phone compromised (especially when I know your phone number, Signal I’m looking at you) or be subject to other means of attacks, exposing everything. I would rather know that this app is not secure so I don…
Stealing someone's phone number wouldn't give you any Signal data, as all the messages have perfect forward secrecy, though, right? And all contacts would see an alert that your security number had changed. Not completely foolproof, and I would like Signal to use something other than phone numbers for accounts, but it's pretty good.
Knowing someone's phone number is enough to potentially compromise it. Sophisticated methods can involve zero-click attacks, where just sending you an SMS that you won’t even see can lead to a compromised device. You can check how Tucker got his Signal conversation exposed.
Matrix is far better in terms of security than Signal, but Matrix is far behind compared to Telegram features.
Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?
#99I am null at cryptography but thie following does not sound too bad as a default tbh. And I think it is misleading to focus solely on e2ee and not mention the distributed aspect. https://telegram.org/faq#q-do-you-process-data-requests > To protect the data that is not covered by end-to-end encryption, Telegram uses a distributed infrastructure. Cloud chat data is stored in multiple data centers around the globe that…
You can coherently argue that encryption doesn't matter, but you can't reasonably argue that Telegram is a serious encrypted messaging app (it's not an encrypted messaging app at all for group chats), which is the point of the article. The general attitude among practitioners in the field is: if you have to reason about how the operator will handle legal threats, you shouldn't bother reasoning about the messenger at…
> if you have to reason about how the operator will handle legal threats, you shouldn't bother reasoning about the messenger at all.
That's true.
You need to run your own platform people. XMPP is plenty simple, plenty powerful, and plenty safe -- and even your metadata is in your control.
Just self host. There's no excuse in 2024.
Wake up people!
Why should the arrest of someone else affect YOU?
Re: Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?
#100I am null at cryptography but thie following does not sound too bad as a default tbh. And I think it is misleading to focus solely on e2ee and not mention the distributed aspect. https://telegram.org/faq#q-do-you-process-data-requests > To protect the data that is not covered by end-to-end encryption, Telegram uses a distributed infrastructure. Cloud chat data is stored in multiple data centers around the globe that…
Clearly the investigating authorities are not buying that argument because, well,
it's completely absurd. Both technically and legally, Telegram are in control of those keys, regardless of where they are hosted.