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Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

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131–140 of 420 posts

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#131
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hetzner and OVH are top of mind, Gandi is nice too. Not Amazon-scale, by far, but European companies hosting in Europe with decent service.

OVH is a joke (their data center burned because they had wooden roofs), Gandi is no more, and Scaleway gave up. There is no French host anymore. Only Hetzner is left in this business.

Dassault has a cloud offering with 3DS Outscale

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#132
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can name the NSA, it’s not illegal to do it (not in Europe at least —- pun intended)

I didn't mean to be vague, I meant to be general. I don't know which other agencies have this kind of unchecked power.

Probably a few we've never heard of.

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#133
post #107

Yea this is so gonna work with them paying 50-60k/pa for engineers. Seriously DACH mentality and influence has been devastating on serious tech development in Europe

> 50-60k/pa for engineers Is that, like, actual information, or just an educated guess based on some industry average.

it's definitely not industry average

at least for jobs which often are referred to as engineers (through legally speaking are not as enginer is a protected title having little to do with software development)

maybe for jobs of people which mainly idk. replace hardware in servers all day but don't really administrate the servers at all

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#134
post #20

> This is something AWS is scrambling to address with its recent announcement of a €7.8 billion investment in an AWS European Sovereign Cloud, expected to launch its first region in Germany by the end of 2025. But will that be enough to regain the trust of European corporations Given the CLOUD Act and FISA, no it should not be enough to regain the trust of those European corporations that look for data sovereignty. A…

Microsoft tried the same (working with Deutsche Telekom) a few years ago. It offered only half the services (mainly "raw" compute, not the cloud services) and was about 30% more expensive and (by design) did not interact with the "regular" Azure. You can imagine how that went.

A separate company doesn't interact with Azure either. If you want to be "sovereign" there's a price to be paid.

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#135

I don't get what's new about this apart from the typical EU related buzzwords. France alone already has OVH and Scaleway, which are actual cloud providers in the "AWS" sense, not just hosting providers. Like I get that this is part of the platform's marketing but I don't see the sovereignty (which is a rather cringy term imo, as it implies that something as big as the EU isn't sovereign) angles to this.

There's no way I could describe it without sounding conspiratorial, so I'm just gonna lean into it: imagine the EU-US relationship suddenly turning very hostile (like Russia-EU relationship already did), how long would it take before all of EU's tech suddenly stopped working? Not saying that's gonna happen or is even likely to happen, but I don't think investing money into bootstraping some sort of a backup is necessarily a bad thing.

China's tech is already self-contained, to a lesser extent so is Russia's, the US is investing a lot in semiconductors just in case something happens to Taiwan, and India has already banned pretty much every Chinese app. The EU, on the other hand, is completely reliant on the US for core tech infrastructure and trying to address that.

None of it makes sense economically, but essentially every superpower is doing something towards at least making it a possibility to "self-contain" their own tech sector. I don't even think this has anything to do with the current political climate (Russia-Ukraine war included), I think it's more in preparation for when climate change consequences start ramping up.

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#136
post #104
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Countries like the US and China are not afraid to subsidize strategically important industries in regions with proven capabilities. Meanwhile the EU likes to waste resources on failed hopeless regions. For example the new investments into making EU independent on chip manufacturing is going to the failed hopeless eastern parts of Germany. I know East Germany had the strongest electronics industry in the former Easter…

East Germany has just the biggest chip cluster in Europe.

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can sign up on their website: https://www.stackit.de/en/ While there are no free credits the services are priced pay per use to the minute with a much simpler pricing model than the large hyperscalers like AWS. See prices for EC2 here: https://www.stackit.de/en/pricing/cloud-services/iaas/stacki... You can find the docs here: https://docs.stackit.cloud/stackit/en/knowledge-base-8530170...

Note that you need to be Incorporated in Germany, Austria or Switzerland to use it. And they dont allow individuals to open accounts. Only companies. "The European cloud" that doesn't allow sign ups from Europe is extremely ironic. I don't know how they keep getting all this press without actually delivering anything

I came here to state exactly this. As a dutch individual that has 'cloud' high on his CV, I would like to create an account and test this to see if it is something I should invest my time in to make it part of my cv. But ... they won't allow that.

Ah well, next!

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#138
I'm not entirely sure how this is something you can 'shift' to. It doesn't compete with the three big ones at all (not in features, not in price and not in scalability, and it has no integration or ecosystem to speak of), but if we were to see it for what it is, it might be more of a competitor to DigitalOcean.

If what you need is a DigitalOcean, then yes, you could shift to this. But when you need a DigitalOcean, you're probably in the wrong place if you were using an AWS/GCP/AZ instead, which is also where this article seems to create a failed comparison.

The play itself does make enough sense, there is a significant duplication in effort across companies, even if you're not doing hyperscaler things and using 'enterprise hardware', the people, processes and technology involved are pretty much the same in all places (which means you wonder what value is added by doing it internally at all -- spoiler it's usually legacy reasons, legacy governance and aversion to change).

When there are enough regions and scalability (capacity, higher resolution consumption pricing, shorter cycle times) you could probably use this as a datacenter-in-the-cloud type of deal, which while 15 years too late is definitely still an improvement in so many businesses. We have some larger companies like Hetzner, OVH and Leaseweb which also try to pivot to more of an XaaS but that in itself is just adding to duplication and a fractured ecosystem. Will this actually work out? Only time will tell...

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#139

Yea this is so gonna work with them paying 50-60k/pa for engineers. Seriously DACH mentality and influence has been devastating on serious tech development in Europe

> Seriously DACH mentality and influence has been devastating on serious tech development in Europe German corporations (and politics) are full of bean counters, bureaucrats and underachievers. It's filled with people who love to talk, excessively plan, draw flowcharts and build frameworks - essentially everything except getting shit done.

German shit is done in Poland, Romania, and Belarus, and for less than 50-60k EUR pa.

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#140
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a fellow European, I'm perfectly content to use someone else's computer, as long as they have a legal responsibility to respect my privacy, i.e. not submitting to the USA Cloud Act.

Speaking of: Is there an EU alternative to Netlify where I can basically upload/host a small static website for free, including custom domains and free SSL?

While 'for free' is something we all want (who wants to spend their money right) it is not a sustainable business case. And with prices of it/server/hosting in the EU being a lot higher then in other parts of the world, what you want is not going to be easy to find.
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