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Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

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Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#541

Post by devman0 »

xwowsersx wrote: post #461
devman0 wrote: post #99

A lot of really terrible takes in this comment section. Telegram didn't have encrypted groups by default, and telegram possessed a lot of content on their servers that they had been made aware was illegal and didn't cooperate. Nothing more, nothing less. The comparisons to other providers is off base because either other providers are cooperating more when they possess actionable, unencrypted information and taking s…

Terrible takes notwithstanding, of which there are many, the issue I see with such arguments is that it's always possible to find legal violations that technically justify prosecution or imprisonment. However, the legal system only functions effectively if we trust that those handling the gray areas are motivated by the common good, rather than serving the interests of a select few or protecting an elite minority. Si…

It's important to note that he has only just been arrested, so there will be a case laid out, a defense offered, facts tried, and ultimately a conviction or not. I don't find a lot of sense in speculating about why or why it didn't happen as that will presumably be surfaced during the trial itself. Such events may or may not be followed up on HN as most of time these things turn out to not be wide ranging conspiracies but more mundane wrong-doings or acquittals based on facts presented and mundane things do not get clicks.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#542

Post by MertsA »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #523
alephnerd wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are a criminal lawyer who is providing defense, that is acceptable because everyone is entitled to to a fair trial and defense. If you are a criminal lawyer who is directly abetting in criminal behavior (eg. a Saul Goodman type) you absolutely will lose your Bar License and open yourself up to criminal penalties. If you are a criminal lawyer who is in a situation where your client wants you to abet their crimi…

… client wants you to abet their criminal behavior, then you are expected to drop the client and potentially notify law enforcement. When would a lawyer be allowed to snitch on their client?

That in particular would fall under the crime-fraud exception so there's no attorney client privilege.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#543

Post by foresto »

4bpp wrote: post #103
mpeg wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use telegram for some group chats, but I'm not sure why tech-savvy people would like it so much – messages are not end-to-end encrypted which makes it an inferior choice compared to even whatsapp

For one, it's the only major messenger that has an actually lightweight, well-written and full-featured desktop client rather than yet another boxed-up web browser. I might be more enthusiastic about using the alternatives if I could use the Telegram client.

Some of these are native apps; not Electron, Java, or what have you:

https://matrix.org/ecosystem/clients/

(Of course, I don't know what qualifies as a major messenger to you.)

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#544

Post by conradfr »

intunderflow wrote: post #78

France was the country of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen, and now you have an autocracy in a semi-democratic vest: - All protests in support of Palestine banned https://www.politico.eu/article/france-gerald-darmanin-aims-... - Head coverings banned - Run a messaging app but the French state finds stuff on it that it disapproves of? You are a Terrorist It's sad to see this backsliding in Europ…

The French government actually uses Telegram.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#546

Post by kombine »

smt88 wrote: post #536
calgarymicro wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The arrest tells us that he said no to one country, it doesn't say much about all the others.

Russian govt officials are protesting his arrest. When an authoritarian govt is calling for the release of someone who runs a "private" messenger, it suggests they have a back door. Otherwise they tend to oppose all private messaging.

No, there is no logical link between the two events. Russian govt can protest that for propaganda reasons: to make a point that Western governments are restricting freedom of speech.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#547

Post by matwood »

ipaddr wrote: post #513
whimsicalism wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

maybe, but i don't think sealed warrants are the reason

There purpose is to hide charges as longas possible to deceive or trick which is against a fully transparent process

There are valid reasons, like stopping people from destroying evidence or fleeing.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#548

Post by cbsmith »

kyleee wrote: post #371
Aurornis wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This distinction gets lost in these discussions all of the time. A company that makes an effort to comply with laws is in a completely different category than a company that makes the fact that they’ll look the other way one of their core selling points. Years ago there was a case where someone built a business out of making hidden compartments in cars. He did an amazing job of making James Bond style hidden compartm…

Is it illegal to offer legal services to undesirables and/or criminals?

Aiding and abetting. It's a crime.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#549

Post by multjoy »

mazambazz wrote: post #29

This seems like the Kim Dotcom situation again. Why are these service providers being punished for what their users do? Specifically, these service providers? Because Google, Discord, Reddit, etc. all contain some amount of CSAM (and other illegal content), yet I don't see Pichai, Citron, or Huffman getting indicted for anything. Hell, then there's the actual infrastructure providers too. This seems like a slippery s…

Telegram is an absolute hive of criminality but, more importantly, Telegram will simply not cooperate with law enforcement.

That is why he's been lifted. Google et al will cooperate, even if that's by way of an onerous bureaucratic procedure involving MLATs.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#550

Post by coliveira »

moqmar wrote: post #400
kyleee wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it illegal to offer legal services to undesirables and/or criminals?

In most jurisdictions yes AFAIK, if those services directly help an illegal activity, and you knew about the illegal activity.

If his was really true for banks there would be a large number of bankers in jail. This number being close to zero, I guess the courts are very lax at charging bankers for crimes.
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