Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

decripto.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

531–540 of 878 posts

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#531

Post by sandworm101 »

mazambazz wrote: post #29

This seems like the Kim Dotcom situation again. Why are these service providers being punished for what their users do? Specifically, these service providers? Because Google, Discord, Reddit, etc. all contain some amount of CSAM (and other illegal content), yet I don't see Pichai, Citron, or Huffman getting indicted for anything. Hell, then there's the actual infrastructure providers too. This seems like a slippery s…

>> Why are these service providers being punished for what their users do?

Are we 100% certain that this is only about Telegram? I want to see the allegations, not the vague charges, before pontificating about ISP liability. These charges might be more straightforwards.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#533

Post by wewxjfq »

robswc wrote: post #444

I find it ironic. As a kid growing up with the start of the internet, many Europeans and Australians implied the US would soon be an authoritarian surveillance state. I even deleted all my comments and accounts because I believed it (as a kid). Now, about 20 years later, I would wager Europe/Australia will reach that point first. I sometimes wish I could bring a crystal ball back in time and see how people would reac…

But we should let corporations into our lives that aren't even following the laws? Frankly, the Telegram users I've seen here and on Reddit really don't make a case for themselves, with all the sweeping accusations they throw around without knowing anything about the case.

20 years ago it was still reasonable to assume that the person you saw posting something was actually real, that the content you saw was actually written by somebody like you, curated by people like you. It's not like this anymore. It's time to stop being naive. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and one of them is granting foreign entities unrestricted access to the minds of your fellow countrymen.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#534

Post by unsupp0rted »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #374
hereyouare wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet here you are posting on HN which does the exact same thing.

Actually, HN has a much better system. Comments from new accounts, like your throwaway, are dead by default, but any user can opt in to seeing dead posts, and any user with a small amount of karma can vouch those posts, reviving them. Like I just did to your post.

Also @dang answers emails and always replies fairly and thoughtfully, because he is mindful of creating a better community.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#535

Post by zarzavat »

ashconnor wrote: post #278
devman0 wrote: post #99

A lot of really terrible takes in this comment section. Telegram didn't have encrypted groups by default, and telegram possessed a lot of content on their servers that they had been made aware was illegal and didn't cooperate. Nothing more, nothing less. The comparisons to other providers is off base because either other providers are cooperating more when they possess actionable, unencrypted information and taking s…

A sane comment in the slew of conspiracy theories, "service provider" apologists and misdirection of encryption being the issue.

Telegram always elicits bizarre reactions from the public. On one side there’s actual security professionals saying don’t use Telegram because it’s not fully E2E encrypted, and on the other side there’s people who are convinced that it’s secure because Marketing and that there’s this big conspiracy to stop people from using Telegram.

The real conspiracy theory is: Telegram have never made any attempt to either implement full E2E or to dissuade their users for using it for politically sensitive messages. Why not?

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#536

Post by smt88 »

calgarymicro wrote: post #459
BeetleB wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have no way to know this Well, other than his arrest ;-)

The arrest tells us that he said no to one country, it doesn't say much about all the others.

Russian govt officials are protesting his arrest.

When an authoritarian govt is calling for the release of someone who runs a "private" messenger, it suggests they have a back door. Otherwise they tend to oppose all private messaging.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#537

Post by skissane »

antimemetics wrote: post #109
Infinity315 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're technically right (I think). However, I believe if you witness a murder and know the murderer and the police asks you: "Do you know anything about X murder?" Then I think you're legally required to tell the truth here.

I think in most modern democracies you aren’t legally required to tell the police anything. Courts are a different case though.

The English common law tradition has a crime called “misprision”. Misprision of treason is the felony of knowing someone has committed or is about to commit treason but failing to report it to the authorities.

It still exists in many jurisdictions, including the UK, the US (it is a federal crime under 18 U.S. Code § 2382, and also a state crime in most states), Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Ireland.

Related was the crime “misprision of felony”, which was failure to report a felony (historically treason was not classed as a felony, rather a separate more serious category of crime). Most common law jurisdictions have abolished it, in large part due to the abolition of the felony-misdemeanour distinction. However, in the US (which retains that distinction), it is a federal crime (18 U.S. Code § 4). However, apparently case law has narrowed that offence to require active concealment rather than merely passive failure to report (which was its original historical meaning)

Many of the jurisdictions which have abolished misprision of felony still have laws making it a crime not to report certain categories of crime, such as terrorism or child sexual abuse

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#538

Post by akira2501 »

Muromec wrote: post #510
kyleee wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it illegal to offer legal services to undesirables and/or criminals?

Try to deposit 10k to your bank account and then, when they call you and ask the obvious question, answer that you sold some meth or robbed someone. They will totally be fine with this answer, as they are just a platform for providing money services and well, you can always just pay for everything in cash.

If you deposit more than 10k the IRS simply gets automatically notified. No one calls you to ask where you got the money.

The IRS actually expects you to report income earned from illegal activities, they _explicitly_ state this in Publication 17.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#539

Post by konart »

Timber-6539 wrote: post #415
konart wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the server? Telegram is not strictly e2e.

An "open source server"... are you trolling?

Not sure what part of my comment amused you so much.

An IM platform server can be open sourced. Just like any kind of software.

It's just a matter of publishing your code and, preferably making it possible to verify that the service your users are connecting to is build using the same published code.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#540

Post by wklm »

soufron wrote: post #364

French lawyer here, it's difficult to know anything as of now given that's all the information is covered by secrecy as long as he's in preliminary custody. Neither him nor his lawyers have access to the procedure yet. This will last for 48 hours from his arrest - it can be 96 hours if they decide his suspected crimes are about drugs or prostitution, and even 144 hours if it's about terrorism. So we'll probably need…

The only decently prudent comment I've read in this thread so far
Post reply on HN