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Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
101–110 of 878 posts
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#102Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#103Telegram is genuinely the best general communication platform I have ever used, by far. I really hope he has a good lawyer and this doesn't end up getting essentially murdered for creating it. When you create something that is objectively great, everyone will use it - including bad actors.
I use telegram for some group chats, but I'm not sure why tech-savvy people would like it so much – messages are not end-to-end encrypted which makes it an inferior choice compared to even whatsapp
For one, it's the only major messenger that has an actually lightweight, well-written and full-featured desktop client rather than yet another boxed-up web browser. I might be more enthusiastic about using the alternatives if I could use the Telegram client.
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#104> jpost.com > • 5 hours ago > Pavel Durov, Telegram founder, arrested by France following warrant - The Jerusalem Post > The alleged offenses include: terrorism, narcotic supply, fraud, money laundering and receiving stolen goods. For those unaware, all channel on telegram are NOT ENCRYPTED. They are stored in plaintext on telegram servers. All chats that are not 'secret chat' mode (single device to single device) ar…
This is misinformation that Telegram stores chat data in plaintext on their servers. It stores it encrypted with encryption keys split across the globe. Not perfect, but multiple legal jurisdictions would have to be subpoenad for Telegram to read your non-secret chats.
This is effectively plaintext, in that one entity has all of those secrets for everyone. That's one entity to subpoena.
If that entity doesn't comply, governments will get upset and charge your executives with crimes if they get the chance.
Different jurisdictions makes it harder to kick down the doors and get the keys, but it doesn't change the fundamental problem.
"Nuh-uh, I put all those records in a box in Switzerland, you can't have them" does not work well for US citizens, unless the government fails to even notice the box.
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think it's a crime not to report a crime, at least not where I live. But facilitating a crime, which is something you could accuse telegram of is.
You're technically right (I think). However, I believe if you witness a murder and know the murderer and the police asks you: "Do you know anything about X murder?" Then I think you're legally required to tell the truth here.
> Then I think you're legally required to tell the truth here.
Or you can just not respond, at least in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-incrimination
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#106> jpost.com > • 5 hours ago > Pavel Durov, Telegram founder, arrested by France following warrant - The Jerusalem Post > The alleged offenses include: terrorism, narcotic supply, fraud, money laundering and receiving stolen goods. For those unaware, all channel on telegram are NOT ENCRYPTED. They are stored in plaintext on telegram servers. All chats that are not 'secret chat' mode (single device to single device) ar…
> They are stored in plaintext on telegram servers
FYI, this is a totally misleading and false claim.
Telegram uses the MTProto 2.0 Cloud algorithm for non-secret chats[1][2].
In fact, it uses a split-key encryption system and the servers are all stored in multiple jurisdictions. So even Telegram employees can't decrypt the chats, because you'd need to compromise all the servers at the same time.
Telegram's algorithm has been independently audited multiple times. Compared to other apps like WhatsApp with claims of E2EE and no body of verification and validation.[3]
[1]: https://core.telegram.org/mtproto#general-description [2]: https://core.telegram.org/mtproto/AJiEAwIYFoAsBGJBjZwYoQIwFM... [3]: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2012.03141
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#107This seems like the Kim Dotcom situation again. Why are these service providers being punished for what their users do? Specifically, these service providers? Because Google, Discord, Reddit, etc. all contain some amount of CSAM (and other illegal content), yet I don't see Pichai, Citron, or Huffman getting indicted for anything. Hell, then there's the actual infrastructure providers too. This seems like a slippery s…
The difference is telegram wasn't cooperating with authorities in the jurisdictions in which it was operating; be that moderation, interception, etc.
It's incorrect to say that they weren't cooperating with authorities at all.
In the EU, Telegram blocked access to certain channels that the EU deemed to be Russian disinformation, for example.
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#108Whoa, it's absurd if true... I fail to see how being responsible for not cooperating with authorities can be turned into being accused of these crimes. And I don't care for the legal gymnastics which makes this possible - the law exists to serve the public interest and is of no inherent value.
In every country I know of, the freedom to not be responsible for what your user's do on a platform includes certain requirements. Removing illegal content is the very least a platform must do.
Every country has their own definition of "illegal" content, but things like CSAM are illegal everywhere, and that's one area where Telegram never really bothered to take action.
The arrest warrant has been out for a while, so I doubt Durov got himself arrested by accident. He probably has a plan, or at least good lawyers.
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think it's a crime not to report a crime, at least not where I live. But facilitating a crime, which is something you could accuse telegram of is.
You're technically right (I think). However, I believe if you witness a murder and know the murderer and the police asks you: "Do you know anything about X murder?" Then I think you're legally required to tell the truth here.
I think in most modern democracies you aren’t legally required to tell the police anything. Courts are a different case though.
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because those services don't get shown reports of CSAM and then turn a blind eye to it and do nothing about it. A person witnessing a crime by itself is not a crime. However, a person witnessing a crime and choosing not to report it is a crime.
I don't think it's a crime not to report a crime, at least not where I live. But facilitating a crime, which is something you could accuse telegram of is.
Generally, there is no general legal obligation for bystanders or witnesses to report a crime, but there are exceptions.