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Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

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Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#71

Post by Muromec »

jimbob45 wrote: post #58
spinningslate wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or: the EU is serious about citizen privacy and addressing the flagrant disregard for it that the major adtech players have shown. If LIDL can compete on price/features/performance _and_ comply with the laws, then good luck to them. Equally, if the big US companies comply, then there's nothing excluding them from the market. They're already present as you note.

After arresting Pavel Durov on specious charges yesterday? Seems more like protectionism with that context.

Dude should have blocked that nazi channel when we asked nicely.

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#72

Post by jeffrallen »

kkfx wrote: post #51

As an European: cloud is someone else computer, sovereign computing means users own their iron, sw and data, as government, so a sovereign computing means a State own hw, sw and data belonging to it. That's ALMOST the case for most EU states so far, but less and less the case, and more and more with private partnership engendering public IT, which is public information, nervous system, witch is the OPPOSITE of sovere…

As a fellow European, I'm perfectly content to use someone else's computer, as long as they have a legal responsibility to respect my privacy, i.e. not submitting to the USA Cloud Act.

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#73

Post by formerly_proven »

shortrounddev2 wrote: post #56
_nalply wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DACH = Deutschland (D) - Austria (A) - Switzerland (CH) but DACH mentality? Perhaps hard-working like people in Germany, Austria and Switzerland? Or overengineering or being stubborn and old-fashioned?

Low salaries to me indicates they believe it is a Germanic ideal to pay subpar wages for highly skilled engineers? I don't think it's a mentality thing, personally, I think it just speaks to the weakness of the European economy for the last 20ish years

Highly skilled engineers leave to places where they get their money's worth (i.e. not germany/eu).

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#74

Post by kergonath »

shortrounddev2 wrote: post #49
albertgoeswoof wrote: post #47

I run a European cloud service, 80% of our customers are basically looking for a European alternative to the big clouds. The market is huge and in my opinion underserved. What makes it very exciting is that there not too much innovation required to compete

The European market has always seemed like a tertiary market compared to the US and Asia. I think that's because, despite having some raw number of euros to spend on a product, the European economy has struggled since 2008 compared to the US and Asia, and huge corps which are obsessed with growth don't see an accelerating future for Europe as a customer base.

Europeans are mostly comfortable giving money to American companies, and there is not as much of a culture difference as with Asia, so there is no need for separate offerings specially for Europe. All big tech companies have several subsidiaries that seem to be doing quite well. It’s true that there are not as many European startups than American ones, but the market is there.

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#75

Post by bjornsing »

foota wrote: post #50
maeil wrote: post #20

> This is something AWS is scrambling to address with its recent announcement of a €7.8 billion investment in an AWS European Sovereign Cloud, expected to launch its first region in Germany by the end of 2025. But will that be enough to regain the trust of European corporations Given the CLOUD Act and FISA, no it should not be enough to regain the trust of those European corporations that look for data sovereignty. A…

These sovereign clouds generally put the root in trust with a local operator so they physically can't be compelled to release information.

What difference does that make, if the parent company is in the US and its executives can be physically compelled to send orders to the local operator?

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#76

Post by n_ary »

p1esk wrote: post #60
arianvanp wrote: post #22

Gaia-X is a disaster. The article misrepresents it. Gaia-X is not a framework for what a European cloud should look like. This would be useful. In beautiful EU bureaucratic style It's a framework for how to talk about how a European Cloud could look like. It's not about technical standards. It's about how we can talk about how we can think of maybe eventually deciding on how we can come up with standards that might o…

Wow, 5 years later and what have they actually accomplished? Look at the milestones section: https://gaia-x.eu/what-is-gaia-x/about-gaia-x/

[flagged]

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#77

Post by maeil »

foota wrote: post #50
maeil wrote: post #20

> This is something AWS is scrambling to address with its recent announcement of a €7.8 billion investment in an AWS European Sovereign Cloud, expected to launch its first region in Germany by the end of 2025. But will that be enough to regain the trust of European corporations Given the CLOUD Act and FISA, no it should not be enough to regain the trust of those European corporations that look for data sovereignty. A…

These sovereign clouds generally put the root in trust with a local operator so they physically can't be compelled to release information.

Do you mean a local subsidiary, e.g. "AWS Europe" or "Microsoft Europe"? Those are included in those acts all the same. If not, what kind of local operator are you thinking that e.g. AWS will use?

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#78

Post by foota »

bjornsing wrote: post #75
foota wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These sovereign clouds generally put the root in trust with a local operator so they physically can't be compelled to release information.

What difference does that make, if the parent company is in the US and its executives can be physically compelled to send orders to the local operator?

The operator isn't under the other company, so if they say "we need this data" they can just say no.

Now potentially they could try to trick the operator, but I'm not sure a company could be compelled to do so under US law. While there doesn't appear to be any relevant cases, this would fall under compelled speech (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compelled_speech) and it seems like it would fall on the impermissible side to me.

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#79

Post by Rinzler89 »

n_ary wrote: post #76
p1esk wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, 5 years later and what have they actually accomplished? Look at the milestones section: https://gaia-x.eu/what-is-gaia-x/about-gaia-x/

[flagged]

N'uh-uh, we have Spotify, SAP and ASML. In your face US big-tech! /s

Re: Lidl's Cloud Gambit: Europe's Shift to Sovereign Computing

#80

Post by digiou »

shortrounddev2 wrote: post #52
intunderflow wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany, Austria, Swiss (swiss-german) mentality In a nutshell: German speakers mentality

But I mean what is that mentality

Extreme frugality and risk aversion, cash (and revenue) is the only KPI to success, digitalization = just make it a PDF and don't change the process thus any process is still equally slow.
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