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BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

electriccarsreport.com

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Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#291

Post by okr »

slg wrote: post #191
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The NY Post's Twitter has been banned multiple times They were, in particular, suspended immediately prior to the 2020 election over a story that was substantially accurate. > Twitter had terms of use. Everything has terms of use. All of the terms of use are purposely written so that anything the company wants can be construed as a violation. But also, "misgendering people" is a point of political dispute . "We pro…

>But also, "misgendering people" is a point of political dispute. If I ask you to call me Bill and you keep calling me William, you're an asshole. I don't know how misgendering people is any different. Just call people what they want to be called. You don't have to turn this into some ideological battle.

I am for numbers. Thats very unideological. Then people can pick their identity/label as they want, but in the system its just a unique number.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#292

Post by ranguna »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #237
NightlyDev wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, BYD passed Tesla in sales in Q4 2023. Tesla was ahead, but that is no longer the case.

Byd is selling $10k vehicles. Those would be considered nice golf carts in the us.

Point being?

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#293

Post by goodluckchuck »

foobazgt wrote: post #218
goodluckchuck wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a technical sense yes but the only new model they’ve released recently is the cyber truck. Otherwise their sedans and crossovers outwardly appear to be basically the same thing they were selling in 2012. Meanwhile, BMW has a fleet of eight different electric vehicles, with more modern styling, leather, and just the ability to differentiate. Of course, Tesla is well into the black on their models whereas I doubt t…

Huh? The model 3 didn't come out until 2017 and the model Y came out in 2020. That's literally just four years ago - not 2012. I own a 2019 model 3 and will be replacing it with a 2024. In those 5 years, it's accumulated a bunch of improvements. I don't exactly have a changelog to work with, but here's what I can think of off the top of my head: - more powerful rear motor, 10% faster 0-60, breaking 10s quarter mile -…

I’m mostly referring to the design language. The newest Model 3 refresh looks a lot like the previous Model 3, which looks a lot like a shorter Model S. Then look at the visual difference between Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Mazda. Tesla has improved their vehicles a lot, but they’re all still Teslas and some people prefer more X, or more Y.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#294

Post by goodluckchuck »

leesec wrote: post #93
goodluckchuck wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a technical sense yes but the only new model they’ve released recently is the cyber truck. Otherwise their sedans and crossovers outwardly appear to be basically the same thing they were selling in 2012. Meanwhile, BMW has a fleet of eight different electric vehicles, with more modern styling, leather, and just the ability to differentiate. Of course, Tesla is well into the black on their models whereas I doubt t…

More models is worse. Anyways theres two mass market cars, one got a refresh recently the other next year

True, but it’s a numbers game. If there are 5 electric cars on the market, 2 are Teslas and the others are Nissan Leaf comparables then Tesla will get a lot of sales.

If there are 80 different models on the market and Tesla makes 5 models… that’s a tiny percentage of the choice that consumers have to pick from.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#295

Post by okr »

anon373839 wrote: post #270
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I see is that people here and on places like Reddit seem to support expression of political views when it is for their side. They wouldn’t take issue with CEOs supporting leftist social justice issues, for example. But when it is a CEO supporting centrist or right-leaning views, they don’t support it. And not just that, but they go out of their way to manufacture outrage or signal their actions in order to suppr…

> when it is for their side. They wouldn’t take issue with CEOs supporting leftist social justice issues, for example. But when it is a CEO supporting centrist or right-leaning views, they don’t support it. I want to push back on something here because I am centrist, even right-leaning in some respects. What Elon Musk has done is not normal. Donald Trump is not normal. He is dangerously unfit for office. The tactics…

Hm. But we want "our" leaders to be controversial and to make points, no? To know where they stand and where they want to go to. I need this clear distinction. Before i did not really have a political home, i saw common-sense disappear, that i used to know. But with these controversial voices i got to know so many interesting people and their voices, it helped me a lot to be positive about the future, which i saw dim in the past.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#296

Post by paretoer »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #167
neofrommatrix wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was seriously considering a Model X until Mr. Musk decided to open up on his political ideology..

This attitude reads to me like: only those who agree with you deserve a place in our economy and society.

The nail that sticks out gets hammered down!

These people shouldn't complain when their is no creativity left in society.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#297

Post by Retric »

avar wrote: post #284
Retric wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t say they were guaranteed to be 1:1, but every registration is an actual sale. The point is the number of sales is going to be grater than or equal to the number of registrations. So this isn’t some gameable metric like number of cars manufactured. It’s possible there is some underlying bias here, but there’s no reason to assume it favors one company over the other enough to offset a 300 car difference in a s…

I'm not arguing the thrust of your point here, just noting that there isn't a 1:1 correspondence in case anyone's under that particular misconception. I agree that registrations is probably the least bad metric, and I doubt BMW is gaming it in this case. But saying it isn't gameable is a bridge too far. Manufacturers can trivially game it, it's just marginally more expensive to do so than to shift manufacturing numbe…

The problem with self dealing is they need to pay taxes at registration. So while sure you can inflate the numbers it isn’t just an on paper thing this is treated as a sale and there’s real consequences of that.

As to shifting the quarter something is sold, people aren’t getting a car before registration here. Selling of excess inventory at a discount is still actual sales.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#298

Post by segfaltnh »

jack_pp wrote: post #236
segfaltnh wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of how true your point is, millions of 20-something year old men exist in the market that haven't yet, or never will, reach your state of capitalism nirvana.

So your assumption justifies judging Tesla owners? Doesn't seem very enlightened of you either

Did you mean to reply to me? I didn't claim it was or wasn't okay, or that I was enlightened. I am merely pointing out that one person's journey to separating themselves from being concerned with vanity and status of their vehicle doesn't remove the large population of people predisposed to behave otherwise.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#299

Post by segfaltnh »

declan_roberts wrote: post #76
two_handfuls wrote: post #22

The Tesla brand has suffered enormously due to the actions of its owner.

Yes that's what we're told, without evidence of any kind.

Agree that people may want this to be a bigger factor than it is, or no factor at all, depending on their personal feelings on Musk and his politics.

I would say its hard to argue it is likely some factor in the middle. I'd love to see it studied.

I'll anecdotally add that I've always found Teslas design language pretty ugly, but did pine after the status of owning one briefly. Now I would never buy one for the association with Musk. So there you have it, scientifically there are at least 3 of us, and at most 8 billion of us. Further study is needed.

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