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BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

electriccarsreport.com

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Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#271

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

declan_roberts wrote: post #76
two_handfuls wrote: post #22

The Tesla brand has suffered enormously due to the actions of its owner.

Yes that's what we're told, without evidence of any kind.

There are lots of angry people who are trying to summon a ‘reality’ that they want to see, where their political opponent has suffered for sharing their political views. It’s why this story got upvoted on Hacker News at all, despite it being obviously misleading and easy to disprove. HN users are critical readers on many topics, so to me it appears that they stop using those critical thinking skills when they have an emotional investment in a topic. In other words, this is just like any other political topic in America.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#272

Post by Too »

coryfklein wrote: post #134
givemeethekeys wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as ICE vehicles go, most mechanics will advise you to lease a BMW / Audi over buying one. After 60k miles, the maintenance costs and electrical gremlins are noticeably frequent. German EV's are probably better built - fewer electrical issues over a longer duration (I hope), and fewer moving parts to replace. I think this is a product differentiation / segmentation problem. People who wanted the current Tesla o…

Surely the dealers leasing those vehicles are factoring cost of maintenance into the lease, no?

See it as an insurance. It's not likely something will break, if you are the unlucky one though, those spare parts aren't cheap. A dealer can distribute that risk over many more cars.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#273

Post by Too »

sangnoir wrote: post #178
primitivesuave wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason the company exists today is because of the crimes of the Quandt family.

Would you be surprised if some people swear off buying BMWs for that reason?

This can be seen in data. Compare the car sales of Netherlands vs Denmark, two countries next to each other with similar living conditions, one of them occupied during the war, the other not. Guess which one of them don't have any German cars in the top sales list. Even today. Though I don't believe todays generation would hold a grudge, now it's likely more brand loyalty momentum that sticks.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#274

Post by The_Colonel »

chii wrote: post #247
epistasis wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Tesla's execution has been really terrible. There's some really good tech inside their cars, but the direction of which cars to make, when, and the investments in non-car tech, the over-promising of "Full Self Driving," etc. All huge detractors. There's also the CEO, who has a huge public profile, deciding to become extremely political, which smart CEOs usually avoid doing because it has little potential to help…

> deciding to become extremely political personally, my purchase decisions do not include the personality or celebrity of the company (CEO or otherwise). There's objective measures you compare against another product (like price, looks, performance, quality etc), and you choose the best fit.

It's not really different from the looks you mention.

Looks is not an objective measure. You buy a nice looking car because its look evokes positive feelings in you. But other things can evoke positive feelings by association. The brand itself, marketing campaign, corporate image. For many, these (usually carefully cultivated) associations are overshadowed by a loud, controversial, partisan CEO who doesn't evoke positive feelings.

It used to be that Tesla cars evoked for me feelings of progress, sort of futurism (although I never really digged its rather bland design), eco-friendliness. Nowadays I see a Tesla and feel a low-key disgust.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#275

Post by The_Colonel »

tailrecursion wrote: post #206
foobazgt wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really get this. "Love the art, not the artist" is pretty much an essentialism for participating in modern human society. Try taking a moment to trace through everything you consume and see how much of it was originated by very flawed human beings - some monstrously so. This extends in every direction, even all the way out to things like massive scientific discoveries. Nothing's immune, because we're all huma…

This appears to be downvoted, but why? I'd like to see the counterargument that we need to put each executive, author, director, or artist through a purity test before we can appreciate or purchase their work. How about listing a few pure American car CEOs. Consumers are free to make choices based on anything they want: but whining in public about how some tweets affect your opinion on a car is not the same thing as…

People don't want to do background checks on companies. But you don't have to do that for Tesla, Musk tries hard to shove his persona in your face.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#276

Post by The_Colonel »

root_axis wrote: post #47
two_handfuls wrote: post #22

The Tesla brand has suffered enormously due to the actions of its owner.

I think you're right, but I'm not so sure it's actually impacting sales to a large degree. For most people a 50k car is a huge investment that won't hinge on whether or not you agree with the CEO's politics.

(Expensive) cars are kind of a symbol of irrational decisions. Plenty of people buy cars they dreamed of even if it will ruin them financially. People buy the car for its look, its brand, freedom they feel. A strong association with an ideology you despise will kinda spoil those positive feelings you have, though.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#278

Post by The_Colonel »

al_borland wrote: post #194
sangnoir wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Step 1 is to stop buying things (or not) because you care how it will make you look to other people who don’t actually care Car OEMs invest millions in branding on the basis of/to promote the opposite of what you're saying: the brand is an expression or an extension of the buyers identity.

That’s what marketing is, but as individuals we should seek to understand the goal of marketing so we don’t blindly fall for it. It’s not real. As the old saying goes… we spend money we don’t have, on things we don’t need, to impress people we don’t care about. We can choose to not do that, and the marketing department can go to hell.

Personally, I stopped fighting this particular battle. I've come to the realization that intangibles matter - some of those might be incidental, some pure personal preferences, some result of me being manipulated by marketing.

But separating which is which is not always easy, and I'd rather spend my time on other things. As a result I take "intangibles" as a rational factor in buying decisions even if the intangibles themselves might not necessarily be rational.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#279

Post by mahkeiro »

petre wrote: post #266
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Excluding a part of the population for no practical reason at all is bad business. But when the politics becomes extremist, that share becomes huge, and it becomes disastrous business. Companies do this all the time though. The trade off is, of course, that you get more support from customers the other side. > But the guy's principles is "big business is right"... I'm not sure what he wants to achieve. This is not…

> Companies do this all the time though. The trade off is, of course, that you get more support from customers the other side. I'm not quite sure that Trump's publuc would rush over to buy Teslas.

Tesla is not only selling car in US, but Musk behavior is turning off people globally (especially in Europe)

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#280

Post by avar »

Retric wrote: post #242
jackedEngineer wrote: post #88

I did some digging.The title is misleading - YTD Tesla is way ahead - https://imgur.com/56eG7CN Actual Numbers - BMW registration for the month of July 2024 were up by 300~ cars. Original Source - https://www.jato.com/resources/media-and-press-releases/bmw-... Quoting this comment - streptomycin- Yes https://i.imgur.com/ZNv1AyD.jpg Although BMW is making some nice EVs and they are selling more than they used to, the…

Announcing BMW sold more EV’s in a single month (and they are using registrations which means actual sales) is interesting on its own. Sure it might just be random fluctuation at this point, but that just means they are neck and neck. IMO waiting for a full quarter may be more reasonable, but waiting for a full year and it’s old news.

    > they are using registrations
    > which means actual sales
No, you register a car in order to drive it on public roads in a given country.

Some purchased cars are never registered (track use, private export etc.), or defer the registration (no reason to pay road tax if you're not driving it yet).

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