Earlier quoted context omitted.
In particular Patreon can host things like podcasts so has a media player. The app isn’t just about configuring billing
That's really a solved problem. As an example, Google manages to have a web version of Youtube that works on iOS mobile Safari adequately. (It's not perfect but it works.) There doesn't seem to be anything snowflake special the Patreon iOS app needs to do that a web app cannot handle.
Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
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Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#872Another point that Patreon isn't really emphasizing here that seems relevant to any conversations about "fairness" is that Apple's fees on Patreon subscriptions in-app are now higher than Patreon's fees. It's important to recognize any time that we're talking about the market that services charge what they can, not what is fair. The market does not have a concept of fairness, only competition. This is why there is no…
> does anybody want to argue that Apple hosting the Patreon app on iOS provides more value to Patreon subscribers and creators than the existence of Patreon itself does? Well, there is a simple way to test this... just get rid of the Patreon iOS app and just use a web version. Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based? I wish fewer companies had apps. I don't need an app for everything. I don'…
So I don't know what's the case here, but sounds like people who get confused by bubbles of different colors
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#873where’s the line between buying something on amazon, ordering a ride on uber, and patreon? why do some purchases get exempt and not others?
I do wonder if a workaround here is buying a physical postcard from a patreon creator that comes with a free monthly subscription. A 50c mailed card would be cheaper for any subscription above $2.
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#874Another point that Patreon isn't really emphasizing here that seems relevant to any conversations about "fairness" is that Apple's fees on Patreon subscriptions in-app are now higher than Patreon's fees. It's important to recognize any time that we're talking about the market that services charge what they can, not what is fair. The market does not have a concept of fairness, only competition. This is why there is no…
> does anybody want to argue that Apple hosting the Patreon app on iOS provides more value to Patreon subscribers and creators than the existence of Patreon itself does? Well, there is a simple way to test this... just get rid of the Patreon iOS app and just use a web version. Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based? I wish fewer companies had apps. I don't need an app for everything. I don'…
There is the simple solution taken by companies like Spotify and Netflix.
Have a free app for users, but only accept payments through your own website.
In which case, Apple doesn't get a dime.
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#875Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#876Earlier quoted context omitted.
Heh, Safari may lack some APIs, but it’s irrelevant for 95% of apps including Patreon. It’s not like Patreon would be unusable on iOS without an app.
The problem is cultural: a growing population do not know what the Web is. When they are asked to search for a website, they open the app store and search there. If there is no result, they give up.
I'd love to know where this idea started, because I'm not convinced it's actually based on any kind of real data. If it is, I don't think it's accurate for the past 5+ years.
Knowledge of the web is probably flat. And apps and smartphones have peaked in the West. Those are my anecdotes to add, since that seems to be what we're doing.
This line of thinking could lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy the more it's spread, too.
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#877That is all.
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#878Earlier quoted context omitted.
> does anybody want to argue that Apple hosting the Patreon app on iOS provides more value to Patreon subscribers and creators than the existence of Patreon itself does? Well, there is a simple way to test this... just get rid of the Patreon iOS app and just use a web version. Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based? I wish fewer companies had apps. I don't need an app for everything. I don'…
> Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based? There is the simple solution taken by companies like Spotify and Netflix. Have a free app for users, but only accept payments through your own website. In which case, Apple doesn't get a dime.
Same with Floatplane, a streaming platform from LTT.
If you actually try to copy Spotify / Amazon you find out very quickly they have exclusive deals and their own account managers. You actually will not get approved for 5-6 months if you try to copy them, and even use their same exact UI and verbiage.
This is the part of the problem with Apple app store.
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#879Earlier quoted context omitted.
> does anybody want to argue that Apple hosting the Patreon app on iOS provides more value to Patreon subscribers and creators than the existence of Patreon itself does? Well, there is a simple way to test this... just get rid of the Patreon iOS app and just use a web version. Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based? I wish fewer companies had apps. I don't need an app for everything. I don'…
Actually Patreon has played it perfectly by offering an android app, ios app and a website, and increasing the prices on the ios app to cater for the fees. The next thing should be to provide a clear notice on the ios app that lower prices can be found on the other apps. Then they will be able to objectively tell how many people value the app store's value additions enough to pay extra
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#880When ignoring for a sec. the questionable 30% cut and duopoly: In the age of subscriptions, being able to see all your recurring payments on a single page and cancellable with two tabs without questions asked, is a feature worth paying for.
This is a service the banking system should clearly provide natively though - there's no good reason Apple is the only one capable of this, nor any good reason why they're best placed for this (there's plenty of non-Apple subscriptions where this would be useful).
Your card provider is well aware of what recurring payments are currently authorized, and should be perfectly capable of providing tools to cancel those authorizations (and inform the merchant of this when doing so).
That that doesn't work is a failure on the part of financial firms (who could provide it) and regulators (who imo should oblige card providers to offer this, and oblige companies to treat cancellation notification like this as equivalent to written notice). Recurring payments are an increasingly fundamental part of consumer banking, but banks provide effectively zero tools for consumers to manage them.
The argument against is that some of these payments might have ongoing obligations you can't just cancel without consequence, and you'd be effectively just be refusing to pay your bills - but you could equally well have no balance available or something so the payment fails in existing cases anyway, so this seems like an entirely solveable issue (if a business that you _must_ pay receives a notification that you've cancelled the card billing authorization, they're going to need to get in touch with you about it just as if your monthly charge failed).