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Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

news.patreon.com

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Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#861

Post by inanutshellus »

jliptzin wrote: post #859
espadrine wrote: post #839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is cultural: a growing population do not know what the Web is. When they are asked to search for a website, they open the app store and search there. If there is no result, they give up.

Then make an app whose sole purpose is to open a website in the browser

It wouldnt matter that your app is just a web view of your website, as accepting payments that bypass the ios payment system gets your app banned.

... Thus the conversation in the first place.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#862

Post by espadrine »

jliptzin wrote: post #859
espadrine wrote: post #839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is cultural: a growing population do not know what the Web is. When they are asked to search for a website, they open the app store and search there. If there is no result, they give up.

Then make an app whose sole purpose is to open a website in the browser

That is disallowed by section 4.2 of the App Review Guidelines[0]:

> Your app should include features, content, and UI that elevate it beyond a repackaged website.

[0]: https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#863

Post by user_7832 »

espadrine wrote: post #862
jliptzin wrote: post #859

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then make an app whose sole purpose is to open a website in the browser

That is disallowed by section 4.2 of the App Review Guidelines[0]: > Your app should include features, content, and UI that elevate it beyond a repackaged website. [0]: https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/

The irony of so many apps being electron wrappers is apparently lost on Apple. I'll just be happy if Teams could stop eating battery for once.

Though honestly jokes aside, this rule still doesn't make a lot of sense (to me). Webapps are capable enough. What does Uber's app, or the Google app do, that's different from their websites? Heck, even Apple's own notes app is simple enough that I'm fairly sure you could make a webapp out of it. I think tasks.org already has such a webapp/website.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#864

Post by inanutshellus »

azinman2 wrote: post #752
Nekorosu wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh. I didn't even know there was a Patreon app. There is an issue though. A lot of people (not me) use phone as their main computing device. And Apple is well known for keeping web app experience subpar compared to native app experience. Safari is lagging behind all the other browsers regarding modern APIs support. Bugs are not getting patched for years. At the same time other web rendering engines are not allowed o…

Is Chrome on Android complete in terms of modern APIs? If so, do people use it instead of apps on Android?

In this context, Chrome is just a browser, just like Safari is on iOS. The "problem" is less-technically-savvy folks (especially -- and ironically -- tech native youth) don't understand/care about the distinction between Apps vs a Website Bookmark/Shortcut.

That Patreon is even considering keeping the app is proof of this.

Depending on how overt Patreon's app is about ringing the alarm bells (imagine a "JUST MAKE A SHORTCUT and save 30% on everything!!!" popup) would just get them banned too, no doubt. Presumably criticizing Apple is a bannable offense.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#865

Post by pyrale »

jzl wrote: post #671
egypturnash wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a creator on the per-creation model and I got a very unambiguously worded email from Patreon this morning basically saying "if we want to be on the iOS store, Apple requires that we remove all billing methods that are not compatible with their payment method, and yours is not; in November 2025, you will be switched to the one billing method that Apple allows us to still have. If you would like to start earlier g…

Right but just because they said it doesn’t mean they’re not playing fast and loose with the messaging. I’ve never heard of a single app where the off-app billing affected the inclusion of the app in the store. I mean maybe it’s true but that seems like it would be breaking new ground in App Store rules. I suspect Patreon is playing semantics here but would be happy to see evidence otherwise. To be clear, I’m taking…

> I think the problem is that Patreon still wants to offer billing options in the app.

We probably will never know which of Apple or Patreon is guilty, unless Apple is forced to yield it in a future discovery, or is raided by some agency in a probe.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#866

Post by pyrale »

bilbo0s wrote: post #113
NekkoDroid wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US will let corproations do whatever they want until they are 1990s Microsoft-level dominant. *The US will let corporations do whatever they want while they are giving "gifts" and "gratuities" to the relevant judges.

while they are giving "gifts" and "gratuities" to the relevant judges There is a lot of corruption in the US. So yes, at times, they will allow that too. But in this case, the commenter was correct. We can't be going into courts of law making poop up. Going into a court of law and saying that a company with 27% market share in phones and 13% market share in PCs is a "monopoly" is almost on the level of being insultin…

> Going into a court of law and saying that a company with 27% market share in phones and 13% market share in PCs is a "monopoly" is almost on the level of being insulting to the justices.

Market share is irrelevant, though. As we can see in this article, the ability to force an unrelated business to transform its business model to fit your needs is monopoly power.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#867

Post by krger »

inanutshellus wrote: post #864
azinman2 wrote: post #752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Chrome on Android complete in terms of modern APIs? If so, do people use it instead of apps on Android?

In this context, Chrome is just a browser, just like Safari is on iOS. The "problem" is less-technically-savvy folks (especially -- and ironically -- tech native youth) don't understand/care about the distinction between Apps vs a Website Bookmark/Shortcut. That Patreon is even considering keeping the app is proof of this. Depending on how overt Patreon's app is about ringing the alarm bells (imagine a "JUST MAKE A S…

>That Patreon is even considering keeping the app is proof of this.

No, that Patreon is "even considering" keeping the app is evidence that they get more valuable information about users and their habits from the app than they could from a website.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#868

Post by carlosjobim »

espadrine wrote: post #839
pjerem wrote: post #787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, Safari may lack some APIs, but it’s irrelevant for 95% of apps including Patreon. It’s not like Patreon would be unusable on iOS without an app.

The problem is cultural: a growing population do not know what the Web is. When they are asked to search for a website, they open the app store and search there. If there is no result, they give up.

For good reason. The web is a cess pit which people will avoid if they can.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#869

Post by inanutshellus »

krger wrote: post #867
inanutshellus wrote: post #864

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this context, Chrome is just a browser, just like Safari is on iOS. The "problem" is less-technically-savvy folks (especially -- and ironically -- tech native youth) don't understand/care about the distinction between Apps vs a Website Bookmark/Shortcut. That Patreon is even considering keeping the app is proof of this. Depending on how overt Patreon's app is about ringing the alarm bells (imagine a "JUST MAKE A S…

>That Patreon is even considering keeping the app is proof of this. No, that Patreon is "even considering" keeping the app is evidence that they get more valuable information about users and their habits from the app than they could from a website.

That's not disagreeing with me, but instead adding yet another argument for users to avoid as many Apps as they can.

If the experience in an app is form, graphs, and payments... use the website. It apparently saves that company 30% and, to your point, keeps your computing habits yours.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#870

Post by meowster »

krger wrote: post #867
inanutshellus wrote: post #864

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this context, Chrome is just a browser, just like Safari is on iOS. The "problem" is less-technically-savvy folks (especially -- and ironically -- tech native youth) don't understand/care about the distinction between Apps vs a Website Bookmark/Shortcut. That Patreon is even considering keeping the app is proof of this. Depending on how overt Patreon's app is about ringing the alarm bells (imagine a "JUST MAKE A S…

>That Patreon is even considering keeping the app is proof of this. No, that Patreon is "even considering" keeping the app is evidence that they get more valuable information about users and their habits from the app than they could from a website.

I doubt it. What evidence supports your claim? I took a look at the Patreon app permissions in Android, and it doesn't even ask for location which is probably the most valuable thing about users they could ask for.
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