all of this app services stuff and apple can't find a way to stop burning any of its good will, shame really
there's got to a good middle ground where all parties are happy and one where apple's goodwill isn't torched
Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
851–860 of 1001 posts
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#852Earlier quoted context omitted.
If it was an open platform, then Apple couldn't charge any more than Steam which is on an open platform, because nobody would pay that much unless forced to. Wait, Steam charges more? Never mind.
If you're suggesting that Steam doesn't have an effective monopoly on the PC market, I have bad news for you. One of the biggest differences between Steam and Apple is that Steam does a better job of hiding the effects from users who will lash out at creators who talk about problems on the platform. An indie creator I follow recently implored fans to buy their next game on Steam and not other platforms... because in…
You're comparing apples to sofas, in my opinion.
The issue with monopolies isn't just their existence, it's their active efforts to keep their monopoly and the negative effects this has on the customer.
Apples monopoly hurts customer, reduces freedom and extracts rent from developers that HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE.
Steams (supposed) monopoly comes entirely from offering the better product to users and developers. Did you know you can generate Steam keys of your game FOR FREE, and sell them away from Steam, giving Steam 0% cut and 99% of the distribution costs?
Compared to Apple, the vast amount of options on PC to acquire software or games means Steam isn't even close to a monopoly. At the very least, they don't have the power to do monopolistic practices and they also just don't abuse them.
Steam is genuinely the closest thing to a perfect company (at least if you like capitalism).
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#853Another point that Patreon isn't really emphasizing here that seems relevant to any conversations about "fairness" is that Apple's fees on Patreon subscriptions in-app are now higher than Patreon's fees. It's important to recognize any time that we're talking about the market that services charge what they can, not what is fair. The market does not have a concept of fairness, only competition. This is why there is no…
> The market does not have a concept of fairness, only competition.
The market exists through legal means, which also include mechanisms for fair competition.
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#854Earlier quoted context omitted.
> does anybody want to argue that Apple hosting the Patreon app on iOS provides more value to Patreon subscribers and creators than the existence of Patreon itself does? Well, there is a simple way to test this... just get rid of the Patreon iOS app and just use a web version. Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based? I wish fewer companies had apps. I don't need an app for everything. I don'…
Actually Patreon has played it perfectly by offering an android app, ios app and a website, and increasing the prices on the ios app to cater for the fees. The next thing should be to provide a clear notice on the ios app that lower prices can be found on the other apps. Then they will be able to objectively tell how many people value the app store's value additions enough to pay extra
Afaik from other discussions of this Apple do not allow apps to inform users that they can pay cheaper outside the app
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#855[flagged]
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#856Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are presented the final cost up-front. There is no "hidden cost" here. When you sign up for a hotel room and they add on room cleaning charges at the end of your stay, that's a hidden cost, especially since the charge is the same no matter what you do while you are there. Ironically, "sales tax" feels like a hidden cost to me. Yes, everyone knows it exists, but not everyone knows what the local value is wherever…
The reason sales prices are quoted without tax in North America is because there's a million different permutations governing what the sales tax is going to be in different situations (who's buying what, from whom, where, when), and this changes all the time. Local governments can shift their taxes at any time to encourage or discourage certain things. I'd argue this flexibility is very good, but the downside is calc…
When I'm standing in a store, they absolutely know what the tax is going to be at the register.
Online, I admit it's harder... But they still need to figure it out at checkout. I would be fine without a disclaimer that until the shopper's location is specified, the final price can't be calculated, but if they're logged in and it's set, it should show it.
Everyone quotes pre-tax pricing because it tricks people into thinking the prices are lower than they are, just like $9.99 feels cheaper than $10.00 when you're making a quick judgement, even though that penny is inconsequential. And it's why gas stations add the additional 9 behind it, making the actual difference even more pointless.
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#857Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is that the fee is not charged to the Apple user on a line item in addition to the content price. Like all markets are supposed to operate. It's information hiding.
Do you know the markup at any retailer? Maybe in aggregate if I look at the financial statements or some specialty retailers like car dealers?
I can find that price by bidding down or calculating it. Retail is no mystery.
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#858Earlier quoted context omitted.
OG Patreon is monthly. The whole point is to support creator in tough times, not buy her stuff on discount.
It is, but monthly subscriptions are too "sticky". There are creators that haven't released anything for several years, but they still earn thousands of dollars from their patrons, because people don't really care about saving $5 a month. At the same time, people do care about spending an extra $5 on top of $50 they already spend on patronage, so new creators in the same field find it harder to amass a sustainable nu…
Is it really a problem? Right now I am skint so every time I sub I unsub from someone else. Patreon makes it super easy. It shows how much I spend on who and I can see who was inactive for years.
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#859Earlier quoted context omitted.
Heh, Safari may lack some APIs, but it’s irrelevant for 95% of apps including Patreon. It’s not like Patreon would be unusable on iOS without an app.
The problem is cultural: a growing population do not know what the Web is. When they are asked to search for a website, they open the app store and search there. If there is no result, they give up.
Then make an app whose sole purpose is to open a website in the browser
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#860Earlier quoted context omitted.
Generally, the Apple Store would be a separate company from Apple phones. A user gets to choose which store they want to use on their phone. Along with other things like which map app is the default. This way, the different stores could compete - by charging lower fees or offering more services. Like the android store does a bare-bones check of the app and so it only charges 10%. Apple checks every app throughly, so…
What a cluster fuck that would become. I can see it now: needing to have 15 different stores with subscriptions to get apps who all have different deals with different apps for exclusivity. No thanks.
Remove app stores completely, kill the "app" concept, and force platform providers to offer to browsers the same capabilities as apps.
Browser capability has been stiffled by the drive from Apple and Google to favor apps (e.g. Safari is the IE of 2024). It's high time this trend is reversed.