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Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

news.patreon.com

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Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#231

Post by Longhanks »

karaterobot wrote: post #175
kmeisthax wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The App Store model was specifically implemented and approved by Steve Jobs. There's old internal e-mails from him complaining about Amazon's reader app making it too easy to buy books without paying the (increasingly literal) Apple Tax. In fact, the reason why antitrust lawsuits seem to never stick to Apple is because all the mens rea was stored in the mind of a guy who tried to cure his pancreatic cancer with fruit…

Not that I think Steve Jobs was a super nice guy, but he clearly cared about Apple's brand, including the part of about users and developers not thinking of them rapacious and hostile, which is sort of how I (and many others) view their pricing model today. I like to think he'd have seen how bad this choice has played out for Apple's brand and changed his position by now, if he were still around.

You mean the guy that literally had to be fired from his very own company because he refused to change course, the guy that most probably died earlier than necessary because he did not change his stance on pharmaceutical medicine?

I believe he would very much love the current Apple Tax system and would eagerly fight the EU in court for this, both out of spite and out of arrogance for "his" Apple.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#232

Post by wccrawford »

neves wrote: post #227

Non North-American here. I've read that Biden passed a "Hidden costs" bill. Wouldn't this Apple charges account as a hidden cost?

You are presented the final cost up-front. There is no "hidden cost" here.

When you sign up for a hotel room and they add on room cleaning charges at the end of your stay, that's a hidden cost, especially since the charge is the same no matter what you do while you are there.

Ironically, "sales tax" feels like a hidden cost to me. Yes, everyone knows it exists, but not everyone knows what the local value is wherever they are, especially on vacation. It should be on the sign. I guess it's not surprising that the government exempts themselves from this law.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#233

Post by jjcm »

In my eyes the most egregious aspect of this is it’s a financial transaction between two people that they’re taking a 30% cut of. I see 30% as fine for things like IAP for digital games and such, but somehow in this lens it feels wrong.

One proposal for a compromise that would feel fair: Apple gets 30% of the app creator’s take rate.

IE if patreon’s take rate is 8%, Apple should get 30% of that, not 30% of the full transaction. This could generalize to physical goods as well. It would require more reporting, but would feel more fair in the eyes of the creators and the users.

I run a similar service to patreon where I charge a flat $1 fee on subscriptions, regardless of the size of the subscription. A $50 sub suddenly getting only $34 after my $1 fee and apple’s $15 fee feels wrong. There’s no amount I can reduce my take rate to cover Apple’s take. But I’m entirely ok giving them $0.30 on my $1 take.

Basically - I’m entirely OK having 30% of my net profits taken by Apple. I’m not ok with 30% of my gross.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#234

Post by bluGill »

brendoelfrendo wrote: post #141
talldatethrow wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don't know if I would call a guy who created a low-fat vegetarian fad diet that doesn't seem to have a basis in any understanding of nutritional science a "well respected doctor," but sure. I would argue that whatever good Steve Jobs did by maintaining a healthy lifestyle, he could have done more by also taking good medical advice and treating his cancer.

His type of cancer is very hard to treat. So it isn't clear that taking good medical advice would have done anything (often there isn't anything they can give), but it wouldn't have hurt.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#235

Post by omoikane »

heavyset_go wrote: post #192
stavros wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the platform you should switch to here is Android. This is Apple's fault, Patreon doesn't seem like it likes the changes any more than you do.

Google forces apps on the Play Store to use Google's payment methods and give them a 15% to 30% cut of revenue, as well. You can sideload, but the duopoly exists and they're shaking 99.9% of users down for every dime they can get out of them.

My understanding is that Patreon does not use Google's payment system and isn't subject to a cut of the revenue. This is why the article says "Your prices on the web and the Android app will remain completely unaffected".

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#238

Post by inetknght »

lovethevoid wrote: post #59
storafrid wrote: post #44

I hope the automatic price offset is separated out and labeled in the cart/checkout as "Apple's user fee".

This isn’t allowed in the US, not sure about the new EU rules regarding this specifically. Best they can do is show a “deduction” only on web/other platforms that shows they’re getting it cheaper than iOS iirc.

> This isn’t allowed in the US

Can you cite the US law for it?

I think it's specifically Apple that doesn't want it because it would give more visibility to Apple's abusive behavior.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#239

Post by neilalexander »

sodapopcan wrote: post #127
g15jv2dp wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phones usually have a web browser installed.

mmmhmmm, indeed. You need to consider the mentality of the people who chose to live this way. Most don't want want to type an address into a browser, ever, they want to tap an app.

I don't think it's anything to do typing the address. It's that there are a lot of people out there who don't understand what a web browser really is, how a web page is distinguished from an app, or how to get something from a web browser to their home screen.

See also: people who copy and paste images into Word documents before attaching them to emails. Same mental model disconnect.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#240

Post by froggit »

whimsicalism wrote: post #182
ncr100 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I misunderstanding, that PayPal can workaround Apple's payment rules which Patreon is complying with?

think p2p transactions are exempt - apple doesn’t get 30% of my venmo or zelle. no clue why patreon doesn’t count though

It's not p2p. 2 transactions happen: you pay patreon, patreon pays them.
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