Why even have an iOS app in the first place over a simple web app? Is there any additional functionality that the iOS app can offer over web?
Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
721–730 of 1001 posts
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#722Earlier quoted context omitted.
> does anybody want to argue that Apple hosting the Patreon app on iOS provides more value to Patreon subscribers and creators than the existence of Patreon itself does? Well, there is a simple way to test this... just get rid of the Patreon iOS app and just use a web version. Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based? I wish fewer companies had apps. I don't need an app for everything. I don'…
> Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based? because apple gimps their web browser capabilities & performance to incentivize developers to enter the walled garden
I use the web version on my phone instead of most apps, and they work fine.
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#723Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sounds like a fun experiment. I'd be interested in Apple allowing Patreon to test that theory by disabling purchases within the app. Is this really about access to a niche user group of users who would never sign up elsewhere? Apple seems to be very invested in forcing Patreon to either not be in the app store at all (and given the limitations of web apps, this is a significant penalty), or offer exclusively Apple pa…
> These are not the actions of a company that believes that its users can be trusted not to make a purchase elsewhere. Well yeah, the charitable interpretation is that of course Apple thinks their users will have a worse experience on average with subscriptions outside Apple’s ecosystem than inside of it. And it’s hard to disagree!
So... they would give Patreon money by going to their website?
Is this a niche market that would never have been available to Patreon that Apple is helping Patreon access, or is this Apple needing to en-mass protect its users from themselves as a result of them being too.. I don't know, weak willed(?) not to pay for Patreon using another method?
It's not both.
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#724Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’ll note their app actually sucks at least for reading serial fiction from a few people I subscribe to. What does require an app though is sending notifications. As a result I have their app just to receive notifications of new chapter releases, then go read the post on the website. If Apple stopped locking this functionality into applications then something like Patreon could just be a website that you pin on your…
Notifications don't require an app. I get many website notifications from my browser app. At least on android. Since Apple now purportedly supports PWA this should also work.
I was planning to write about how iOS PWAs didn’t support push notifications, but it seems they added it since I last checked.
They were a bit late on that but with that finally here there really is no excuse for Patreon to not be a PWA.
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#725I remember reading that per-creation billing is a very important feature for Patreon creators, because it removes the moral obligation to produce content just to justify a subscription. If Patreon really doesn't want to kill the feature itself, but is just responding to Apple's enforcement, then it seems like a really clear illustration of monopoly power - pushing unrelated markets to change their own structure and p…
The thing most aren’t thinking about is that per-creation billing is an absolute nightmare, and I don’t blame Apple for not supporting it. Can’t even begin to imagine the support nightmare/chargebacks etc. It’s not all about the 30% cut. If it was easy and trouble free, they would support it. Imagine what a great time apps would have if Apple let them charge you an amount whenever they wanted, without user authorisat…
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Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#726Shit hits the fans
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#727I don’t understand one part: why can’t a creator just decide to not appear in the app? Are they changing the donation structure for everyone regardless of their interest of the Apple platform? Why should YouTubers be bothered by this change, for example.
They said that if they offer different options for people who are not in the app, Apple threatened to remove them from the App Store.
I smell lawsuit. Apple should not force a company to change their ways outside the Apple ecosystem for a chance to publish an app. I bet the EU won’t like this one.
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#728Earlier quoted context omitted.
> is providing infinite value Not infinite value, just any value versus 0 value. IE: infinitely times 0 is less than 0.0000001%. So the same relationship is true if you’re using Firefox to access Patron. Apple charging fees is definitely a reason to drop Apple, but you personally can’t force creators to drop Patron which is why they can be so toxic.
> Not infinite value, just any value versus 0 value. I'm not a fan of Patreon by any means, but it seems pretty silly to me to argue that Patreon offers literally zero value to consumers. Patreon's interface is still better than using Paypal to subscribe to a creator. Patreon still offers me as a user a modicum of privacy, I don't have to give my billing address to every creator that I support. You don't have to like…
> but zero value?
Value is the net worth of something. I judge it as negative because IMO if it didn’t exist we’d be better off which isn’t to say it has zero positives just that the negatives outweigh the positives.
Your free to disagree, but I think it’s a reasonable argument.
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#729Another point that Patreon isn't really emphasizing here that seems relevant to any conversations about "fairness" is that Apple's fees on Patreon subscriptions in-app are now higher than Patreon's fees. It's important to recognize any time that we're talking about the market that services charge what they can, not what is fair. The market does not have a concept of fairness, only competition. This is why there is no…
> does anybody want to argue that Apple hosting the Patreon app on iOS provides more value to Patreon subscribers and creators than the existence of Patreon itself does? Well, there is a simple way to test this... just get rid of the Patreon iOS app and just use a web version. Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based? I wish fewer companies had apps. I don't need an app for everything. I don'…
> Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based?
Apple & Google Pay is my guess. Which I don't use, just because it's rent seeking and leads to this.
I use the websites. Don't want to install bloody apps which request every permission available. My browser has most of those set to denied. Don't even ask for permission, outright deny.
Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon
#730Earlier quoted context omitted.
> does anybody want to argue that Apple hosting the Patreon app on iOS provides more value to Patreon subscribers and creators than the existence of Patreon itself does? Well, there is a simple way to test this... just get rid of the Patreon iOS app and just use a web version. Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based? I wish fewer companies had apps. I don't need an app for everything. I don'…
> Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based? Apple & Google Pay is my guess. Which I don't use, just because it's rent seeking and leads to this. I use the websites. Don't want to install bloody apps which request every permission available. My browser has most of those set to denied. Don't even ask for permission, outright deny.
You can use apple and google pay on normal websites that have it set up.