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Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

news.patreon.com

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Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#311

Post by Aloisius »

jasonjayr wrote: post #89
maccard wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's unreasonable - the user found your app through apple. Imagine if I sold tools, and I hung out in Home Depot next to our tools display telling people "hey, if you buy them directly from me, you can save 30%" I can't see that lasting very long.

In Patreon's case, I don't think the user found the content "through Apple". The customer found the creator, and the creator said "Pay me through Patreon". The user, only having an iOS based device is now trapped by Apple's restrictions on the transaction, which brings dubious benifits to the table.

Since creators point people to their patreon page, surely that gives Patreon the ability to show a lower price in the browser even for iOS users.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#312

Post by baby »

AlexandrB wrote: post #249
bkraz wrote: post #80

As a longtime YouTube creator who uses Patreon for financial support, the news is terrible: Patreon informed me that all creators must switch to a monthly subscription schedule instead of the per-creation schedule that I and many other currently use. The whole point of per-creation is that it allows me to take time off, and only charge people when I release something, thus incentivizing me, and being fair to my suppo…

Apple has quietly been one of the biggest culprits in the proliferation of subscription software. They still don't support upgrades/upgrade pricing. Subscriptions are also the easiest way to implement a software demo or trial in the App Store. Finally they use their control of the App Store to coerce anyone doing something different than monthly/yearly subscriptions into that model (as we see here). It sucks big time…

I really hate how the current pattern is

1. Download seemingly cool app on iOS (free with potential payments)

2. Go through a 30min quizz

3. Required to subscribe for $150/year to start using the app

It’s not free, it’s false advertising

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#313

Post by sureIy »

I don’t understand one part: why can’t a creator just decide to not appear in the app?

Are they changing the donation structure for everyone regardless of their interest of the Apple platform? Why should YouTubers be bothered by this change, for example.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#314

Post by bluescrn »

ThrowawayTestr wrote: post #87
bkraz wrote: post #80

As a longtime YouTube creator who uses Patreon for financial support, the news is terrible: Patreon informed me that all creators must switch to a monthly subscription schedule instead of the per-creation schedule that I and many other currently use. The whole point of per-creation is that it allows me to take time off, and only charge people when I release something, thus incentivizing me, and being fair to my suppo…

If you're able, my artist friend has had a lot of success running their own site and doing their own payments through PayPal.

Everyone's heard horror stories about Paypal, though. Doesn't seem like a platform that you want to become too reliant on.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#315

Post by jayd16 »

derefr wrote: post #282
raybb wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's missing is you pay for Adobe Photoshop CS2 and it's yours forever. Then when CS3 comes out you can upgrade with a nice discount.

Ah, alright. There's nothing actually stopping you from doing this — it requires two things: 1. either a third-party licensing server (and thus some SSO auth system — but just require Apple's own SSO for it and it'll still be a clean-ish workflow) to share/sync the transaction status from one app to the other; or a local Group Container plus logic in each app to write the transaction statuses fetched for the given ap…

Have you actually done this? Is there a common example on the app store?

When did it become possible to download additional executable bundles on iOS?

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#316

Post by rdsnsca »

saratogacx wrote: post #277
derefr wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They still don't support upgrades/upgrade pricing. What would this mean, exactly? You can sell people a demo→full-version permanent unlock as a one-time purchase, same as you can sell DLC in a game. And you can also have subscription tiers, where you get more features out of the higher tiers of subscriptions. And you can, in theory, freely mix these — e.g. charging someone a subscription for the base version, and t…

The model is the "old school" model for software sales. The first version you sell to a user at full price and offer a discount for upgrading (something like 40% off). It lets the customer pick when they feel the value prop is worth the cost and lets you offer a loyalty incentive to the user. Right now the choice is "keep paying for it to keep working" or "fully price for every upgrade".

Bundles can be used for upgrade pricing, you put the new version up for full price (ie. $20) and and a bundle with the new and old version (ie $30, for a 50% discount on it) for those who own the old version. When you buy a bundle you don't pay for the one you own.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#317

Post by ryan29 »

_han wrote: post #188

This is the most shocking part to me: > Apple has also made clear that if creators on Patreon […] disable transactions in the iOS app, we will be at risk of having the entire app removed from their App Store. Absolutely astounding that removing transactions from the platform could result in being removed.

I wonder how far those rules from Apple go.

I don't know a ton about Patreon, but what if creators have exclusive content available via the app and use that to encourage fans to subscribe outside of iOS? What if creators start an education campaign on YouTube telling their fans to avoid subscriptions on iOS?

I wonder if Apple is playing with fire on this one. If the creator and influencer markets turn on them, I think it could have a non-trivial impact on Apple's brand, especially with younger generations. Many modern creators are also smart business people and they're not going to see much value in Apple taking 30% of their revenue when Patreon is already providing all the services they need for about 15% at the top end IIRC.

Right now I think the biggest change that could help the average consumer would be for legislators to allow, or maybe even require, app owners to split platform fees into separate line items. For example, something like:

    Donation              $1.00
    Patreon Platform Fee  $1.18
    Apple Platform Fee    $0.50
    ----------------------------
    Total                 $1.68

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#318

Post by whimsicalism »

froggit wrote: post #240
whimsicalism wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

think p2p transactions are exempt - apple doesn’t get 30% of my venmo or zelle. no clue why patreon doesn’t count though

It's not p2p. 2 transactions happen: you pay patreon, patreon pays them.

likewise with venmo, no? who gets to decide what constitutes a transaction

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#319

Post by goosedragons »

coldcache wrote: post #138
bilbo0s wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while they are giving "gifts" and "gratuities" to the relevant judges There is a lot of corruption in the US. So yes, at times, they will allow that too. But in this case, the commenter was correct. We can't be going into courts of law making poop up. Going into a court of law and saying that a company with 27% market share in phones and 13% market share in PCs is a "monopoly" is almost on the level of being insultin…

The Brown Shoe Company merger in the 1960s was shot down, even though it would only control around 7% of the nation’s shoe supply. It’s important to not just consider the quantitative impact of the monopolist (percent of market share) but also the qualitative components (is it vertically integrated? is it hurting consumers?). I’m not sure whether or not Apple is a monopolist, but I certainly think there are some argu…

Yup, and at the time of the Paramount Decree the movie studios had 17% of theaters and 45% of film revenue. And that was across 5 independent studios.

Apple has over 50% of smartphone marketshare in the U.S. and over 60% of mobile app revenue.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#320

Post by EricE »

akudha wrote: post #114
EricE wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardly! The fee has been a hot topic of discussion since day one.

Hot topic of discussion where? Amongst developers, right? How many non-developer Apple users are aware of Apple’s shenanigans? I doubt not many. Even if the end users are aware and accept it, that doesn’t make Apple right. We as a society accept a lot of things - from the security theatre at airports (last week, I saw photos of passengers taken, for domestic flights) to Amazon workers peeing in bottles. As long as we…

https://www.reuters.com/technology/apple-plans-new-fees-rest...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2024/01/17/apples-...

https://www.insightpartners.com/ideas/do-you-have-to-pay-the...

Yes, there is far more discussion in tech/nerd spaces, but it's also being talked about in non-tech areas too.

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