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Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

news.patreon.com

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Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#641

Post by idle_zealot »

brigadier132 wrote: post #507
xyst wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s time for tech (not just Apple) to be broken up. If only we haven’t defanged the regulatory agencies …

Apple doesnt need to be broken up, they just need to be forced to open their devices. No proprietary apis that only they have access to, when you open the phone for the first time you should be able to pick what store to use and they have to allow alternative browsers

I agree that consumer ownership rights to their computers are the more pressing issue, but Apple should probably also be broken up. The problem is how to do that without destroying the value they bring to consumers, i.e. where do you draw the lines internally?

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#642

Post by eigenvalue »

This just seems kind of insane to me in that it really burns up a lot of consumer goodwill towards Apple, especially from creator types, who are way more influential than regular customers. And it also seems to invite regulatory scrutiny which could end up killing their golden goose if they are forced to open up their platform and strict limits are placed on what they can charge for facilitating transactions on the platform. That kind of regulatory crackdown is really not unprecedented-- just look what the US did the phone company back in the day, or to banks and credit card companies in terms of interchange fees. This is just extremely silly behavior to engage in from a dominant company.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#643

Post by Aeolun »

xnyan wrote: post #386
HeatrayEnjoyer wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why is Patreon doing this if even they don't like it?

iOS market share is near 60% in the US and a bit over 25% worldwide. They can't afford to leave that on the table.

They can _not_ charge through iOS though. It’s a very small matter for me to navigate to the Amazon website to buy a new book, then load it up in the Kindle app.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#644

Post by fastest963 »

umvi wrote: post #605

So wait, if I donate $1000 to a creator via iOS app, Apple takes $300? That can't be right, can it? Seems like literally robbery.

Actually what would happen is that you would pay $1400: $1000 to the creator and $400 to Apple.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#645

Post by perfectstorm »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #294
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #14

The world where Apple is just completely fine with Apple users paying $13 instead of $10 for a subscription if they do it through an app is an interesting one. Obviously this makes a lot of money for them but when you think about it they must think very little of their customers treating them with disrespect like this. This is how 'Tim Cook's Apple' should be remembered.

Previously, Apple specifically prohibited charging more though AppStore for services that are available to be purchased elsewhere. I'm not in the mood to sift though current version of Apple's legalese , but I'd be surprised if they dropped this requirement, that'd be very uncharacteristic of them.

they didn't prohibit charging more for App Store purchases, they prohibited mentioning it in the app. i.e, you cannot mention something like 'purchase this in-app product for $3 cheaper on our website'.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#646

Post by tensor »

baby_souffle wrote: post #491
brookst wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> does anybody want to argue that Apple hosting the Patreon app on iOS provides more value to Patreon subscribers and creators than the existence of Patreon itself does? I'll bite, kind of. People get emotional about particular companies so let's abstract them away: is it possible for a second-tier distributor to bring more value to a first-tier distributor than the first-tier brings to suppliers? Looking at it that…

> The economics would suggest that Patreon should do away with their iOS app, focus iOS users on the web, and everyone would be ahead. Apple doesn’t let web apps do everything that native apps can do. Their App Store is the only way people get apps on their device and if a search for ‘patreon’ in the App Store returns nothing, that’s a lot of confused or angry people that are going to wonder what their monthly bill i…

What? I have many many many monthly bills that are not iPhone apps. My gas bill may or may not have an iOS app, but I'm sure as hell not confused and angry if it doesn't.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#647

Post by Aeolun »

kmeisthax wrote: post #361
dannyobrien wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why Patreon has to drop the per-creation model. Can they not just not offer that on iOS, and continue it on other platforms? (Perhaps with a "convert from susbcription to per-creation" feature online?)

From the article: > Apple has also made clear that if creators on Patreon continue to use unsupported billing models or disable transactions in the iOS app, we will be at risk of having the entire app removed from their App Store. In other words, every Patreon creator has to be billable through iOS App Store or you get kicked off. Someone should get the FTC or EU involved. This is beyond the pale.

> or disable transactions in the iOS app

This should be beyond illegal right? Other apps do this without issues.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#648

Post by Aeolun »

squigz wrote: post #630
dannyobrien wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why Patreon has to drop the per-creation model. Can they not just not offer that on iOS, and continue it on other platforms? (Perhaps with a "convert from susbcription to per-creation" feature online?)

The per-creation model isn't even offered to new Patreon accounts, or those that have switched away from it. I'm not sure why

Something about too much transaction fees?

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#649

Post by Spivak »

brookst wrote: post #476
danShumway wrote: post #389

Another point that Patreon isn't really emphasizing here that seems relevant to any conversations about "fairness" is that Apple's fees on Patreon subscriptions in-app are now higher than Patreon's fees. It's important to recognize any time that we're talking about the market that services charge what they can, not what is fair. The market does not have a concept of fairness, only competition. This is why there is no…

> does anybody want to argue that Apple hosting the Patreon app on iOS provides more value to Patreon subscribers and creators than the existence of Patreon itself does? I'll bite, kind of. People get emotional about particular companies so let's abstract them away: is it possible for a second-tier distributor to bring more value to a first-tier distributor than the first-tier brings to suppliers? Looking at it that…

Does Honda bring more value to customers than your local dealership? The world may never know.

Does Warner Brothers being more value to customers than AMC?

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#650

Post by cortesoft »

danShumway wrote: post #389

Another point that Patreon isn't really emphasizing here that seems relevant to any conversations about "fairness" is that Apple's fees on Patreon subscriptions in-app are now higher than Patreon's fees. It's important to recognize any time that we're talking about the market that services charge what they can, not what is fair. The market does not have a concept of fairness, only competition. This is why there is no…

> does anybody want to argue that Apple hosting the Patreon app on iOS provides more value to Patreon subscribers and creators than the existence of Patreon itself does?

Well, there is a simple way to test this... just get rid of the Patreon iOS app and just use a web version. Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based?

I wish fewer companies had apps. I don't need an app for everything. I don't need every hotel I stay at to have their own app, I don't need an app to order food at a restaurant.

So why do companies make them? Because people spend more money when they can just use the in app purchase functionality. It is CLEARLY worth the 30% to most companies, because they keep pumping out single use apps that would be better as a mobile web page.

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