Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

news.patreon.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 1001 posts

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#261

Post by raybb »

derefr wrote: post #255
AlexandrB wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has quietly been one of the biggest culprits in the proliferation of subscription software. They still don't support upgrades/upgrade pricing. Subscriptions are also the easiest way to implement a software demo or trial in the App Store. Finally they use their control of the App Store to coerce anyone doing something different than monthly/yearly subscriptions into that model (as we see here). It sucks big time…

> They still don't support upgrades/upgrade pricing. What would this mean, exactly? You can sell people a demo→full-version permanent unlock as a one-time purchase, same as you can sell DLC in a game. And you can also have subscription tiers, where you get more features out of the higher tiers of subscriptions. And you can, in theory, freely mix these — e.g. charging someone a subscription for the base version, and t…

What's missing is you pay for Adobe Photoshop CS2 and it's yours forever. Then when CS3 comes out you can upgrade with a nice discount.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#262

Post by reaperducer »

neilv wrote: post #125

Since at least the 1980s, IT had the concepts of "open systems" and "interoperation", to support market competition and innovation. And we later did things like the Web and other open standards. Then Apple comes along, and uses its market position as a hardware and OS vendor, to make a nonstandard software download thing that could've been a Web site. In parallel, Apple also made open-standards Web apps unattractive…

Since at least the 1980s, IT had the concepts of "open systems" and "interoperation", to support market competition and innovation. And we later did things like the Web and other open standards. Then Apple comes along,

Wow. I don't know if that's selective memory, or revisionist history, but you've got a huge dose of the stuff.

No, interoperability isn't perfect now, but it's a heck of a lot better than it was in the 80's.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#263

Post by Uvix »

dannyobrien wrote: post #248
bkraz wrote: post #80

As a longtime YouTube creator who uses Patreon for financial support, the news is terrible: Patreon informed me that all creators must switch to a monthly subscription schedule instead of the per-creation schedule that I and many other currently use. The whole point of per-creation is that it allows me to take time off, and only charge people when I release something, thus incentivizing me, and being fair to my suppo…

I don't understand why Patreon has to drop the per-creation model. Can they not just not offer that on iOS, and continue it on other platforms? (Perhaps with a "convert from susbcription to per-creation" feature online?)

User confusion - if they block users from subscribing to those creators on iOS they will inevitably have support tickets to deal with it. Hence their 16-month project to remove non-iOS-compatible plans.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#264

Post by lenerdenator »

aftbit wrote: post #258
lenerdenator wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple could add an API for 3rd party subscriptions to integrate with that screen. They could. And the third parties would absolutely ignore it or make it a front door to their own subscription management, which could mean anything from something as simple as the current iOS subscription management (highly unlikely) or a link that opens a browser page that tells you to call a given phone number to cancel your subscr…

But then Apple could use their market power to remove those cheating apps from the app store, just like they are doing for the billing changes.

Maybe. Or they could just keep doing the thing that earns them the most money, which is what they're doing now.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#266

Post by meindnoch »

talldatethrow wrote: post #108
kmeisthax wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The App Store model was specifically implemented and approved by Steve Jobs. There's old internal e-mails from him complaining about Amazon's reader app making it too easy to buy books without paying the (increasingly literal) Apple Tax. In fact, the reason why antitrust lawsuits seem to never stick to Apple is because all the mens rea was stored in the mind of a guy who tried to cure his pancreatic cancer with fruit…

[flagged]

The video you've linked is 100% quackery.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#267

Post by aftbit »

lenerdenator wrote: post #264
aftbit wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then Apple could use their market power to remove those cheating apps from the app store, just like they are doing for the billing changes.

Maybe. Or they could just keep doing the thing that earns them the most money, which is what they're doing now.

I'm just saying, it's a strawman argument to claim that Apple is doing this to "protect users". That's what they want you to think, but they're actually doing this to make a massive amount of revenue at the cost of literally everyone in the market, users and creators alike.

Edit: Econ 101 - the more inelastic the demand, the more the tax burden falls on consumers. One would assume that demand for Patreon is relatively elastic, at least when compared to things like food, housing, transportation, etc. Thus most of this tax burden will actually fall on the producers (i.e. Patreon and the creators), which explains why they're not willing to just take the 30% cut and will instead charge more for Apple users.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#268

Post by lozenge »

Arainach wrote: post #219
InsomniacL wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does apple allow that? I think there are rules about telling people not to use IOS method. Not sure if that would extend to content displayed in the app too from creators?

Take Apple out of the loop entirely. Why does Patreon need an app? Have users go through the website. Send them updates when people post new content. I've never used the Patreon app on either Android or iOS. I support a number of creators and I have no idea why I'd want an app. Money is taken from my account. Receipts are sent to my email. Articles from creators are sent to my email, and if they're long enough I clic…

The app's useful for audio posts. But mostly it's just an extra chance for them to make money. Push notifications, the home screen icon, etc. Most people I know, their inbox is barely functional due to the marketing emails, and they're reliant on features like Gmail's "Important" which only highlights real people, not Patreon content.

You're not the average user, and if the average user gets a billing email and hasn't bothered to read their content email, visit the site or open the app, they are more likely to end their subscription.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#269

Post by repelsteeltje »

mrgoldenbrown wrote: post #168
maccard wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's unreasonable - the user found your app through apple. Imagine if I sold tools, and I hung out in Home Depot next to our tools display telling people "hey, if you buy them directly from me, you can save 30%" I can't see that lasting very long.

I have been using patreon for 5 years, and I "found" it via the artists I like who use it as a platform. If I buy my first iPhone tomorrow and download the patreon app, that's not because apple helped me discover anything.

It might even be vice versa: in theory, as an Android user you might have learned about this thing called "iPhone" in an Patreon banner promoting the fact that Patreon can be downloaded through the Appstore.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#270

Post by FredPret »

wccrawford wrote: post #232
neves wrote: post #227

Non North-American here. I've read that Biden passed a "Hidden costs" bill. Wouldn't this Apple charges account as a hidden cost?

You are presented the final cost up-front. There is no "hidden cost" here. When you sign up for a hotel room and they add on room cleaning charges at the end of your stay, that's a hidden cost, especially since the charge is the same no matter what you do while you are there. Ironically, "sales tax" feels like a hidden cost to me. Yes, everyone knows it exists, but not everyone knows what the local value is wherever…

The reason sales prices are quoted without tax in North America is because there's a million different permutations governing what the sales tax is going to be in different situations (who's buying what, from whom, where, when), and this changes all the time.

Local governments can shift their taxes at any time to encourage or discourage certain things. I'd argue this flexibility is very good, but the downside is calculating sales tax in the US is complex enough that there are companies dedicated to it.

So everyone quotes pre-tax pricing.

Post reply on HN