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The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

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Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#251

Post by StavrosK »

gnaffle wrote: post #174
mirkules wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this the 2007 MBP you have? I would love to know the details of your upgrades because I have an '07 17" MBP that needs a refresher. Specifically the amount of RAM you have (I thought 4GB was the max) and the SDD?

That's right, 4GB is the max. I'm using an Intel X25-M SSD. I don't find the memory to be a problem using the SSD. Be prepared to remove a lot of screws to get to the HDD, but the iFixit guides are great.

I have a 2008ish MacBook (the white plastic one), I installed some extra RAM and a Vertex SSD (both very easy to do, as they're user-upgradable) and it's just as fast as my new Air or my desktop computer, there's no noticeable difference.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#252

Post by shareme »

I have a question how is this different from when the MBP laptops were originally introduced years ago?

Did they not come with RAM soldered on and Battery glued on?(my memory says yes)

They have in the past shown that once the get the kinks worked out of the alphas that they than revert to RAM not soldered on the board and battery not glued..what has changed as far as this time?

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#253

Post by to3m »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #51
archgrove wrote: post #7

The argument doesn't really hold up, as we're only given two choices: Upgradable, or amazing screen. If there was a third, "Upgradable and amazing screen" with the applicable price/weight tradeoffs, then the "we can choose" view would be more tenable. Regardless, the lack of upgradability isn't something that bugs me. My last two Apple laptops were "upgradable", but all I ever did was throw some RAM in there. The sub…

There is the Air line for light weight laptops for normal people. I would think that the word Pro signals that this computer is for people who want to do stuff with it beyond what is provided up front.

Do you think "pro" signals anything? I always assumed it was like "sport" in a car - i.e., meaningless. (I have a "sport" car. And... it has 4 doors. And a diesel engine.)

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#254

Post by Ralith »

ericd wrote: post #235
Ralith wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would almost certainly be cheaper, so they must stand to profit somehow by making it harder to open the devices.

At their volumes, it wouldn't be cheaper in any meaningful sense.

That depends how you define meaningful. It obviously required more resources than simply using standard parts and tools, so there must be some payoff.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#255

Post by MrFoof »

pasbesoin wrote: post #84
archgrove wrote: post #7

The argument doesn't really hold up, as we're only given two choices: Upgradable, or amazing screen. If there was a third, "Upgradable and amazing screen" with the applicable price/weight tradeoffs, then the "we can choose" view would be more tenable. Regardless, the lack of upgradability isn't something that bugs me. My last two Apple laptops were "upgradable", but all I ever did was throw some RAM in there. The sub…

Off the top of my head (and so, perhaps wrong), I seem to recall the amount Apple is charging for going from 8 GB to 16 GB to be on the order of US$200. [1] For RAM that they are purchasing and installing in volume. That's a lot of net profit into their pocket, for each unit. And that's where I have one particular concern: Apple closing down and engorging itself on yet another market segment (upgrades). You can argue…

Memory and storage are always margin padders for a simple reason: the average user cares about the benefit provided, not the raw cost. There isn't a single OEM I can think of that doesn't do this. Heck -- go buy a server from Dell or HP. You want to see margin? There's some crazy fantastic margin.

The user looks at a storage upgrade as "I get twice as much for X". They don't break it out to $ per GB, and they don't start to compare to low volume wholesale (i.e. NewEgg) component prices.

Automobiles are very similar, especially the higher end you go. Though even for family sedans, the "cost" of a V6 over a four-cylinder in a family sedan isn't several thousand dollars. Even if you include upgrades to the transmission and the rest of the driveline, the raw cost doesn't come close. It's tasty front-end margin, plain and simple, and I can't think of many people who complain about the cost per additional horsepower. The cost to produce 19" wheels over 18" wheels on a Porsche Boxster isn't anywhere near the extra $1560 they charge you, but if you want stiffer sidewalls, it's what it's going to cost straight from Porsche. Trim levels? Trust me, a V12 sedan doesn't cost 50% more than a V8 sedan, regardless of interior upgrades. There's a lot of pure profit built into top-trim levels of models.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#256

Post by benatkin »

EternalFury wrote: post #245
jsz0 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upgrade-by-replacement. In 2 years you'll still be able to sell this machine for about 70% of its original price. From there you can buy the latest & greatest model at basically a 70% discount. Factor in the price of the parts you would have upgraded and I bet it's a wash or pretty close to it.

In 2 years, the non-replaceable battery pack will be dead.

That will be someone else's problem. People will still pay a lot of money for used MBPs.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#257

Post by sneak »

aggie wrote: post #202
DennisP wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Further evidence that Apple has its thumb on the scale: special screws that can't be turned by readily-obtainable screwdrivers.

You can buy Torx screwdrivers in any half-decent hardware store or any number of online merchants.

Apple no longer uses Torx on the external screws.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#258

Post by tlb »

moystard wrote: post #24
archgrove wrote: post #7

The argument doesn't really hold up, as we're only given two choices: Upgradable, or amazing screen. If there was a third, "Upgradable and amazing screen" with the applicable price/weight tradeoffs, then the "we can choose" view would be more tenable. Regardless, the lack of upgradability isn't something that bugs me. My last two Apple laptops were "upgradable", but all I ever did was throw some RAM in there. The sub…

That's not the only point mentioned in this article. You are forgetting about two aspects: - Environment: Gluing glass and aluminum most probably forbid recycling both of them, that's just a waste. - Cost of repairing: While with previous models, any of us could replace some part of his laptops easily (to repair as well as to upgrade), that won't be possible anymore. That means that it will cost tons of money to cust…

The material recycling value is very, very small in any case. A beer can as 15g of aluminum, and the MBP has maybe 300g. So the same aluminum as 20 cans of beer. The respective economic value is orders of magnitude different.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#259

Post by phaus »

reaganing wrote: post #231
pasbesoin wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off the top of my head (and so, perhaps wrong), I seem to recall the amount Apple is charging for going from 8 GB to 16 GB to be on the order of US$200. [1] For RAM that they are purchasing and installing in volume. That's a lot of net profit into their pocket, for each unit. And that's where I have one particular concern: Apple closing down and engorging itself on yet another market segment (upgrades). You can argue…

$200 to go from 8GB to 16GB was among the most reasonable of notebook vendors I saw in my research last night. Lenovo, for example, wanted $1,060 to go from 4GB to 16GB in the ThinkPad X230. Regardless, I don't think anyone looking at such an expensive notebook to begin with would have a problem paying $200 for more RAM if they think they might need it some day if it means a thinner notebook.

Even if I made a million dollars a year, I wouldn't want to be needlessly gouged by anyone.

I'm fine with vendors charging way more than the ram is worth, as long as I have the option to purchase my ram somewhere else.

There's no denying that the new MacBook is a very nice machine, it just sucks that they either had to make huge concessions to get the form factor the way it is or they wanted to.

Does anyone know if the Samsung Series 9 allows for user upgradable memory? If so, there is no excuse for Apple.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#260

Post by gcv »

jaems33 wrote: post #145
illamint wrote: post #85

I've always been in the camp that rarely replaces the battery in my Mac laptops, especially with the new LiPo batteries. It's not like they're NiCads that need replacing every month (I remember having a stack of batteries for my Powerbook Duo). Additionally, in the past, the only other components I've replaced have been drives (adding an SSD) and memory (upgrading to the max amount supported by the board). In this ca…

During these four years, I have been able to: replace the keyboard (after I had improperly cleaned it), replace the battery, upgrade the RAM, and upgrade the HDD. I can give it to a family member as a hand-me-down as it not only wasn't that expensive but has a lot of newer the components that make age well. Four years ago, I was fine with having even just having 2 GB for a bit of Photoshop and browsing on my current…

YMMV. I have bought fully-loaded mid-release-cycle Apple laptops for the last ten years, starting with the Rev. D TiBook. Each lasted for several years of heavy use. At year 3, they started feeling dated, and at year 4, I generally replaced them.
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