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The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

ifixit.org

171–180 of 353 posts

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#171
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means:

> unserviceable — adjective > not in working order or fulfilling its function adequately; unfit for use.

Is the submitter arguing that the closed nature of the machine prevents it from fulfilling it's function, or did they just decide to change the original title which used accurate wording ("Unfixable, Unhackable") on a whim?

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#172
post #5
post #2

> Would we support laptops that required replacement every year or two as applications required more memory and batteries atrophied? This is the key misunderstanding most people made: a 2010 MacBook Air still makes a fine system, even for software developers. For almost all users, hardware capacity has exceeded their needs for years and the newer battery technology holds up better than the older designs as well.

When I was 14 I would build my own computer from parts and boy did I care about upgradability and serviceability. One of the reasons I switched to Apple is I didn't want to spend time making computers, I wanted to spend time making things with my computer. My 2011 Macbook Air is the best computer I've ever owned. Go to any meetup for software developers and you see a lot of the people in the crowd who have gone the s…

> One of the reasons I switched to Apple is I didn't want to spend time making computers, I wanted to spend time making things with my computer.

I can't up vote that comment enough.

Before VM Ware, I used to run a Windows 2k box, and a Mac OS X box. The fundamental difference was when I used the PC, I was always busy fiddling with hardware or software (the registry, etc.) Using the Mac, I simply got work done.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#173
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the only point mentioned in this article. You are forgetting about two aspects: - Environment: Gluing glass and aluminum most probably forbid recycling both of them, that's just a waste. - Cost of repairing: While with previous models, any of us could replace some part of his laptops easily (to repair as well as to upgrade), that won't be possible anymore. That means that it will cost tons of money to cust…

The glue is designed to come apart, especially when heated. I'd understand you if they used expoxy resin or something like that, but that's not the case. Also, Apple has an incentive to make them recyclable since they offer a free recycling programme. My biggest concern is the RAM, both because I've had RAM failures before which now becomes a motherboard swap, and because I'd rather max out the RAM later when it's ch…

Just an FYI here: heating epoxy (sufficiently) will overcure it and make it removable (it'll puff up like popcorn, and becomes very brittle and weak). I can't swear to the current state of the art, but using epoxy as a conformal coating to exclude environmental influences and thermally stabilize a populated circuit board was pretty standard military/aerospace practice in my day, and one could use standard soldering tools to drill down to the components for replacement/repair.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#174
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've maxed out the ram, added an SSD _and_ added the biggest SATA drive I could find and fit it in the DVD tray using an adapter from iFixit. My laptop is from 2007 and it feels like a speed demon with the SSD and still can store all my media. So now, I have the option of maxing out the hardware _hoping_ that it will last me many years. That's part of buying into a closed platform _and_ belonging to a niche of consum…

Is this the 2007 MBP you have? I would love to know the details of your upgrades because I have an '07 17" MBP that needs a refresher. Specifically the amount of RAM you have (I thought 4GB was the max) and the SDD?

That's right, 4GB is the max. I'm using an Intel X25-M SSD. I don't find the memory to be a problem using the SSD. Be prepared to remove a lot of screws to get to the HDD, but the iFixit guides are great.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That machine is 2 pounds heavier, half again as thick, and has a shorter battery life; in other words, it's more like the cheaper model 15" Pro, which is also easily upgradeable, and also an inch thick and lighter at 5.5 lb.

Please note that I cited the 420s, not 420. It's under 4 pounds, which is half a pound lighter than the new mpb. It's slimmer than my 15" old-gen mpb, although I believe the retina is slightly thinner still.

This is kinda moot, as Lenovo doesn't sell the 420s online anymore. Are there any decent alternatives?

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#176

There is one thing that to me indicates Apple has really thought through the consequences of this new design: The fact that the SSD is socketed and thus user removable. The machine retains that most critical aspect of home or in-store servicability. Why this is important: the specific failure case where you have a faulty logic board, or any other failure that requires a full machine replacement. You still have the ab…

Bingo. Repairs are now super-easy: move SSD to identical replacement machine, done.

Makes supply-chain management MUCH easier. For Apple, they can now concentrate actual repairs in one place, rather than rolling out parts & training & etc. to stores. Just have a stack of new or refurb units ready to swap and mailers for returns: user brings in a broken notebook, swap SSD, user has a like-new[1] machine in minutes and leaves happy, store just mails the broken beast back for repair in a very efficient & well-equipped facility.

[1] - some hypothesize that Apple refurb units are better than new.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#177
Okay... This is kind of important:

The new Macbook Pro's use Apple's proprietary pentalobe screw.

That statement probably didn't rock your world, but it's one reason why I'm not buying a macbook pro. This screw has one purpose and one purpose only: to keep you out of your own laptop. The Air's have been using them for a while. You may think that you can get a driver when you need one, but it's not as easy as you think. Apple will not lend or sell you a pentalobe driver. They're probably actively trying to sue anyone who will. If you can get one, it will most likely be from an online source and take weeks to arrive.

Why is this bad?

Most users, myself included, don't plan for failure. Life is life. Stuff breaks. I can fix a lot of it. I've owned relatively few laptops over the years because I nurse them along into extreme obsolescence. I've spilled coffee on my laptops many times. If you power-down and remove the battery immediately and do some careful disassembly/cleaning you can rescue almost any laptop from a coffee spill no matter how much sugar and cream you take in your joe. Provided you have the tools to take it apart that is!

My air lasted exactly one spill. I couldn't remove the battery. I couldn't take it apart. Apple refused to do either for me. They made me wait 4 hours for an appointment so they could tell me it's now off warranty and offer to repair it for, I kid you not, more than I paid to buy the air new!

The end result is that my nice 2011 machine aluminum unibody air had a total life-time of less than a year. These devices may feel like they're built to last, but a device built to last is serviceable. The air's and now the pro's are built to be disposable.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#178
post #9

The title part "But should we really blame Apple?" rather than the original "UNFIXABLE, UNHACKABLE, UNTENABLE" is a perfect replacement for Apple loving HN crowd.

I gave it some thought before replacing the title. I'm confortable with what I came up with because the new title echoes both of the article's main points, while the original focuses a bit too much on the "unhackable" side and is, frankly, a bit click-baity. Anyway, I'm sorry if it passed as blind apple love. Wasn't my intention.

And the question mark fits with the conclusion of the article.

Betteridge's Law of Headlines:

"Any headline which ends in a question mark can be answered by the word 'no'."

-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridges_Law_of_Headlines

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#179

The argument doesn't really hold up, as we're only given two choices: Upgradable, or amazing screen. If there was a third, "Upgradable and amazing screen" with the applicable price/weight tradeoffs, then the "we can choose" view would be more tenable. Regardless, the lack of upgradability isn't something that bugs me. My last two Apple laptops were "upgradable", but all I ever did was throw some RAM in there. The sub…

Off the top of my head (and so, perhaps wrong), I seem to recall the amount Apple is charging for going from 8 GB to 16 GB to be on the order of US$200. [1] For RAM that they are purchasing and installing in volume. That's a lot of net profit into their pocket, for each unit. And that's where I have one particular concern: Apple closing down and engorging itself on yet another market segment (upgrades). You can argue…

That's a lot of net profit into their pocket, for each unit.

You should never price things based solely on how much the inputs cost. If people are willing to pay huge premiums for incremental RAM upgrades, Apple will gladly let them.

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