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The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

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Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#231

Post by reaganing »

pasbesoin wrote: post #84
archgrove wrote: post #7

The argument doesn't really hold up, as we're only given two choices: Upgradable, or amazing screen. If there was a third, "Upgradable and amazing screen" with the applicable price/weight tradeoffs, then the "we can choose" view would be more tenable. Regardless, the lack of upgradability isn't something that bugs me. My last two Apple laptops were "upgradable", but all I ever did was throw some RAM in there. The sub…

Off the top of my head (and so, perhaps wrong), I seem to recall the amount Apple is charging for going from 8 GB to 16 GB to be on the order of US$200. [1] For RAM that they are purchasing and installing in volume. That's a lot of net profit into their pocket, for each unit. And that's where I have one particular concern: Apple closing down and engorging itself on yet another market segment (upgrades). You can argue…

$200 to go from 8GB to 16GB was among the most reasonable of notebook vendors I saw in my research last night.

Lenovo, for example, wanted $1,060 to go from 4GB to 16GB in the ThinkPad X230.

Regardless, I don't think anyone looking at such an expensive notebook to begin with would have a problem paying $200 for more RAM if they think they might need it some day if it means a thinner notebook.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#232

Post by bitwize »

beej71 wrote: post #185
bitwize wrote: post #150

Steve Jobs had a dream of selling sealed boxes to customers who would treat them as appliances, like toasters. That's what he's been pushing for, and now Apple is on track to doing it. So they deserve half the culpability, inasmuch as this is a bad thing. The other half is with the people who buy such machines.

It's the perfect machine for a lot of people. Just not for me.

Me neither; I lug around a big-ass ThinkPad. I don't give a shit about design; I love my Thinky's design. Like a pickup truck. I need a computer that will grow with me and has parts available if I need to repair or upgrade.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#233

Post by [deleted] »

its_so_on wrote: post #134
robert_nsu wrote: post #61

As long as other OEMs and other industry leaders don't follow Apple's lead on this, I'm fine. I won't need a retina display in the near future unless Visual Studio or vim suddenly require it. (and I really don't see that happpening -ever)

enjoy the blurry antialias artifacts or straight-up blocky/ incorrectly pixel-aligned letters, in both visual studio and vim. Might as well use DOS. /s

[deleted]

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#234

Post by ericd »

mirkules wrote: post #184
gnaffle wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's right, 4GB is the max. I'm using an Intel X25-M SSD. I don't find the memory to be a problem using the SSD. Be prepared to remove a lot of screws to get to the HDD, but the iFixit guides are great.

Yeah, the likelihood of messing it up is really what kept me back all these years (that, and voiding the [now-expired] warranty). I might give it a shot this weekend. Thanks for the info!

I did the same thing with an 07 MBP, it went off without a hitch and made a big difference, for another data point. The iFixit pictorial guides were really helpful.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#235

Post by ericd »

Ralith wrote: post #212
wmf wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using regular screws would be pointless; there's nothing you can do inside the case.

It would almost certainly be cheaper, so they must stand to profit somehow by making it harder to open the devices.

At their volumes, it wouldn't be cheaper in any meaningful sense.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#236

Post by MartinCron »

wlesieutre wrote: post #226
ctdonath wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying 10% more for "better done right without further hassle on my part" is worth a lot to many customers.

Which is fine and dandy, but "Pay 100% more for 'there's no other way to get a RAM upgrade'" is a pretty crappy deal.

It absolutely IS a crappy deal, but it's the only deal you're going to get unless you're willing to consider an alternative product.

You can always stick the cheap ram in your clunky Dell laptop.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#237

Post by shawnc »

wlesieutre wrote: post #226
ctdonath wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying 10% more for "better done right without further hassle on my part" is worth a lot to many customers.

Which is fine and dandy, but "Pay 100% more for 'there's no other way to get a RAM upgrade'" is a pretty crappy deal.

Really, then don't buy it and opt for a machine you can upgrade. I agree, having the freedom to upgrade is nice, if you feel you'll need to. And doing it on your own, and saving money is nice. From a warranty and support perspective - not letting people tinker with it makes it a LOT easier.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#238

Post by shinratdr »

epochwolf wrote: post #165
mirkules wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this the 2007 MBP you have? I would love to know the details of your upgrades because I have an '07 17" MBP that needs a refresher. Specifically the amount of RAM you have (I thought 4GB was the max) and the SDD?

I have an early 2008 MBP, the max supported ram is 4gb. I haven't been able to find anyone that says otherwise.

For many models, the Apple supported number and the real number is different. Usually it happens when the machine supports an odd amount of RAM (like 3GB or 6GB) that would require some wasted RAM if you wanted exact pairing.

With the MBPs sold in 2008, all of them support 6GB even though Apple claims only 4GB. Go ahead and try it. If it doesn't work I'll pay for your RAM upgrade.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#239

Post by georgespencer »

[deleted] wrote: post #229
georgespencer wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Upgradability was a defect of technology not being good enough for long periods The other thing to consider is that the same applies to repairing technology. Why are we putting resource into catering for the tiny minority of a given product which experience mechanical failures which we can fix? 90% of BlackBerry users will never change the battery on their device. 100% of BlackBerries have a stupid door on the back…

[deleted]

> Wow, this is really not true at all.

Actually it is! The failure rate for a MacBook Pro was way under 2/10 when I was there during the lifespan of the product.

Apple calculates the lifespan of a product in different terms to the warranty. The warranties differ by country (EMEA & US have different warranties thanks to EU and individual state laws).

You're right that these machines can and will go for five years. My current laptop, a 17" MacBook Pro, has been with me since ~2007. It'll go for another year at least.

Apple will replace these devices when they are in warranty. True. But the concept of a warranty is what is wrong, not the replacement of an entire device.

It's better to have a device which is far less likely to suffer mechanical failure, which happens to require a more expensive repair when it does, than it is to have a device far more likely to suffer mechanical failure but with cheaper repairs (for a few select problems).

If you can't afford a MacBook Pro don't buy one. There are other machines on the market which are highly user-replaceable. I'm going to buy the new Retina, I won't be getting AppleCare, and I bet it lasts just as long if not longer as anything else you buy.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#240

Post by georgespencer »

reaganing wrote: post #231
pasbesoin wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off the top of my head (and so, perhaps wrong), I seem to recall the amount Apple is charging for going from 8 GB to 16 GB to be on the order of US$200. [1] For RAM that they are purchasing and installing in volume. That's a lot of net profit into their pocket, for each unit. And that's where I have one particular concern: Apple closing down and engorging itself on yet another market segment (upgrades). You can argue…

$200 to go from 8GB to 16GB was among the most reasonable of notebook vendors I saw in my research last night. Lenovo, for example, wanted $1,060 to go from 4GB to 16GB in the ThinkPad X230. Regardless, I don't think anyone looking at such an expensive notebook to begin with would have a problem paying $200 for more RAM if they think they might need it some day if it means a thinner notebook.

> Lenovo, for example, wanted $1,060 to go from 4GB to 16GB in the ThinkPad X230.

At a guess I'd say that's because they're using matched 8GB sticks, whereas Apple is using 4x 4GB. (Just a guess.)

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