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Ask HN: Junior dev and I don't want to compete in this job market. Any advice?

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Re: Ask HN: Junior dev and I don't want to compete in this job market. Any advice?

#51

Post by gonzo41 »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #17
spencerchubb wrote: post #8

Apply at companies that are really big, really old, and are pretty bland. Like insurance, banks, retail. Basically apply to everything in the Fortune 500

Yes get a job outside of "tech." Every company has a website, most of them have dev teams for them. Some of my happiest friends have got jobs doing web dev for companies whose products they use because of hobbies: sailing, climbing, kitchen equipment etc. These are often less competitive than startup or tech companies too. By some measures the work can be less exciting but it varies quite a bit so don't judge in adva…

This is great advice and i think in some ways, if you land a job with a big bank that's old with a massive legacy ecosystem, you learn a lot more about support, change management and actually delivering in adverse conditions.

Re: Ask HN: Junior dev and I don't want to compete in this job market. Any advice?

#52

Post by adin8mon »

sadboi31 wrote: post #7

You only need to compete in dev/IT when you lack relationships. It's not about raw talent or raw output but instead absolute trust. Confidence that you (or whoever) has a good sense of direction and is grounded in their work. I don't trust anyone in this industry who has never had a mentor. I would never work with anyone else in this industry who is themselves not already a part of an active community where they are…

Ah yes, it's not actually hard in the job market: just call up your rich friends!

Yeah, I probably wouldn't trust anyone who only looks at social proof to determine who's a good person and who isn't.

Re: Ask HN: Junior dev and I don't want to compete in this job market. Any advice?

#53

Post by LeonB »

computerdork wrote: post #43
samtho wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels a little tone deaf and a bit useless. OP does not have a job and, especially in a the crumby market that we’re in for tech work, they just need anything they can get. You’re speaking from a place way higher on Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs than where OP is currently. It’s hard to imagine yourself in a position where you can casually choose who you want to work for if you are not even getting interviews or of…

You have a point, the OP did say that they were having mental health difficulties. So the interview process can definitely make this worse given where this person is at. But think Addaon also has a point. Yeah, the interview process can often be horrible. It can be demoralizing, especially after what the OP has gone through with their health (I have major health problems too, so can sympathize). For me at least, my s…

Well said.

Approaching the challenge of looking for a job is similar to the psychology required by salespeople, who face many more “No” responses than “Yes”es.

On podcasts I’ve heard salespeople talking about the need to invert your thnking if looking at success. To treat every “no” as a win. Count the nos, focus on that. The inner game of sales requires different strategies than other parts of your working life.

It is as if, for the sake of professionalism, they deliberately inhabit an impenetrable optimism, but remain detached enough, at a deeper level, that the rejections are understood as just part of a game.

Easier said than done, of course… I wish you luck, and urge you to take one tiny step at a time, even without motivation, as motivation is something that builds up — “motive” being derived from the same roots as “motion” — as those tiny difficult steps at the start, create motion that brings about momentum and motivation all by itself.

Re: Ask HN: Junior dev and I don't want to compete in this job market. Any advice?

#55

Post by LeonB »

citizen_friend wrote: post #49
LeonB wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once held opinions like that, but overcame them long ago. I came to realise that this kind of stereotype was effectively a narrow minded form of gate-keeping that contributed to the myopic tech-bro dystopia that’s been swallowing all that is good in this world. Additionally — the original poster has been living through some very difficult times, it would be perfectly normal, and not a sign of job fitness, if motiva…

Do you think you can become a really good engineer without being personally motivated and curious? I don't. That's not to say you can't have seasons of more or less interest, but this guy is at the starting line.

I think that success isn’t from individual “great engineers” but from excellent teams and collaborations.

We over emphasise the myth of the solo genius, for example, as it fits neatly into “stories”.

There are many cases where the heroic genius “great engineer” seems to be the solution to all of the problems… until they get sick or fired and suddenly the remaining team becomes far more productive than they were before.

It’s a bit like in “moneyball” — how the talent scouts were looking for batsmen that could hit a home run, but the real value was in the batsmen who could consistently make it to first base.

Attributes like “personal motivation and curiosity” — are also filtered through the interviewer’s perception — they become: “personal motivation and curiosity in a form which I can immediately recognise because it fits the patterns I am predisposed to expect” - and this lead to very narrow selections. By looking for this trait (and believing that you can detect it), what other traits are you missing? (Hint: all of them)

Re: Ask HN: Junior dev and I don't want to compete in this job market. Any advice?

#56

Post by chasebank »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #29
chasebank wrote: post #13

Probably get downvoted for this but seek a job outside a computer. Plenty of engineering gigs onsite, petroleum, civil, mechanical, etc. tbh you sound depressed and sitting in front of a computer will only compound the issue. IMO- Comp sci jobs are crutches at best. Best of luck.

> IMO- Comp sci jobs are crutches at best. Can you explain more what is meant here?

Staring at a computer screen for a career will result in a net negative life imo. I meant that as the money will keep you happy enough but you’ll most probably lead a very hampered quality of life.

Re: Ask HN: Junior dev and I don't want to compete in this job market. Any advice?

#57

Post by purple-leafy »

sadboi31 wrote: post #7

You only need to compete in dev/IT when you lack relationships. It's not about raw talent or raw output but instead absolute trust. Confidence that you (or whoever) has a good sense of direction and is grounded in their work. I don't trust anyone in this industry who has never had a mentor. I would never work with anyone else in this industry who is themselves not already a part of an active community where they are…

I don’t trust people like you that are all about appearance’s and groupthink.

Nothing wrong with keeping to oneself, in fact, I would rather trust someone who is self governed than a sheep that needs to be in a community.

Also, who deals in absolutes? People are complex. Very stupid take

Re: Ask HN: Junior dev and I don't want to compete in this job market. Any advice?

#58

Post by toomuchtodo »

ayakang31415 wrote: post #36
toomuchtodo wrote: post #19

Consider federal government remote work. You're not going to make FAANG money, but if you're remote, you don't need it. You need a job that supports your living needs and your mental health goals. For folks who have a STEM degree, the US Patent and Trademark Office is currently paying ~$90k/year for remote patent examiners. This macro will pass, you just need a place to hang your hat until you've gotten your foundati…

What exactly is 18f?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18F

Re: Ask HN: Junior dev and I don't want to compete in this job market. Any advice?

#59

Post by mattkrause »

parpfish wrote: post #24

If you’re looking for flexible work accommodations, I doubt state/federal gigs would be a fit. Not sure which state you’re in, but those tend to be much more conventional “9 to 5” than you might find at other tech companies. If you want time-of-day flexibility, look for either a distributed startup OR a giant company that has presence in lots of different timezones

You might be surprised.

I applied to a few federal jobs after grad school, and some of them offered flexible arrangements (e.g., 4 days a week x 10 hrs or 9x9 hours with alternate Fridays off). Telework is often an option too.

Re: Ask HN: Junior dev and I don't want to compete in this job market. Any advice?

#60

Post by citizen_friend »

LeonB wrote: post #55
citizen_friend wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think you can become a really good engineer without being personally motivated and curious? I don't. That's not to say you can't have seasons of more or less interest, but this guy is at the starting line.

I think that success isn’t from individual “great engineers” but from excellent teams and collaborations. We over emphasise the myth of the solo genius, for example, as it fits neatly into “stories”. There are many cases where the heroic genius “great engineer” seems to be the solution to all of the problems… until they get sick or fired and suddenly the remaining team becomes far more productive than they were befor…

So no such thing as a good or bad engineer? Just teams then? Have you ever worked by yourself?

I think the bias today is actually against individuals and for community.

Money ball didn’t get them the best team it got them the better team than others expected for less money.

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