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A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

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Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. I don't drink decaffeinated coffee not because I don't get any effects but because of its tase, which I reckon is horrible. Caffeine is bitter (well slightly so) and I reckon removing it makes it unpalatable for me, it's likely why caffeine-free tastes bad. (I'd add I drink both coffee and tea without milk or sugar, that'd make the taste of the caffeine more noticeable I'd reckon). Incidentally, I was unaware…

I would recommend trying it, its not as bad as you say it is

OK. This is off topic a bit but it's like this: I don't much like tea or coffee—except when they're very good. But anyway I drink both and that includes really bad stuff—with one exception, I will not drink either with milk/cream or sugar. I'll tolerate maybe a single teaspoon of sugar in coffee but any sugar in tea I find repulsive and just won't drink it. So, decaffeinated coffee falls within the range of 'acceptable' beverages I'll drink, but I'd prefer the real thing. (I lied a bit there, I also find decaffeinated tea truly repulsive and I never drink it but then it's so rare (at least in my circles) that I never come across it.)

As I said I really enjoy really excellent tea and coffee but I find getting what I like very difficult at a price I can afford. With tea, I used to drink good quality Darjeeling but it's almost impossible to get nowadays (it's over $1,000/kilo). Adding anything to that except perhaps a slice of lemon would be a crime. The cheap stuff that's now sold under the name is little more than tea dust, a good cheap Orange pekoe is a much better deal. I also love good green tea but again the only way I can guarantee to get what I want at a reasonable price is in the tea markets in Japan and I'm not there very often.

Similarly, truly good coffee is also very difficult to get, and it's fiddly to prepare. Even with good beans and an espresso machine I'll more often than not make a suboptimal brew.

I've this theory that many people who add milk and sugar to tea and coffee do so to mask their bad quality although they're not necessarily aware of the fact as it's so rare to get truly good product.

Incidentally, I was introduced to tea somewhere about 4/5 years of age when my mother gave me a weak brew with milk and sugar. I recall that about the time I started school telling my mother to stop putting milk in the tea, the following week I told to stop adding sugar. I've taken that way ever since.

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#142
post #4

The decaf process seems expensive so you might expect the end result to cost more, but it never does. Which means either the producers are making less profit on decaf, or they are using lower quality beans. If the latter is true, which seems more likely, that might explain why decaf sometimes tastes less good, separately from the effect of the process itself on taste.

> decaf process seems expensive so you might expect the end result to cost more, but it never does

Where? Decaf coffee does cost more...

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#143

I'd love if all psychoactive compounds could be removed from coffee beans. The stress response and inability to sleep I get from decaf beans is pretty much comparable to that from normal beans (and distinctly different from pure caffeine or green tea)

it might be easier to just artificially recreate "natural coffee flavor" than to try to remove everything

That's exactly what I'm doing by drinking barley coffee. With some milk and sugar it's getting close to coffee (minus all the aromatic flavor)

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#144

I'd love if all psychoactive compounds could be removed from coffee beans. The stress response and inability to sleep I get from decaf beans is pretty much comparable to that from normal beans (and distinctly different from pure caffeine or green tea)

I had a similar problem. Coffee, decaf, even dark chocolate would be very stimulating and would mess with my sleep, even a single cup in the morning. I tried quite a few things to solve this and ended up discovering that supplementing with molybdenum solved it. Molybdenum is an essential element important in the metabolization of some compounds, including caffeine. It's cheap and may be worth trying. Also, I found th…

Very interesting suggestion, will look into it. L-theanine has long been a staple of mine to counteract the effects of coffee. Typically have to redose at 4am, as the cortisol spike keeps me awake otherwise (that is, from a small coffee 26hrs ago..)

These days I'm limiting my intake to once a month or so

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar problem. Coffee, decaf, even dark chocolate would be very stimulating and would mess with my sleep, even a single cup in the morning. I tried quite a few things to solve this and ended up discovering that supplementing with molybdenum solved it. Molybdenum is an essential element important in the metabolization of some compounds, including caffeine. It's cheap and may be worth trying. Also, I found th…

I'll add some more info to my post. Caffeine is a purine ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine ). A Google Scholar search for "molybdenum purine" will come up with many studies discussing how molybdenum is involved in purine catabolism. For example, the following article states "[molybdenum] is considered essential because it is part of a complex called molybdenum cofactor that is required for the three mammalian…

Did taking molybdenum improve metabolism of caffeine in your case?

Did you have blood markers checked? For me, some values like GPT/GGT are in fact increased for unknown reasons.

I recently and unsuccessfuly researched ways to participate in studies, as I'd like to understand why I can't eat chocolate or drink coffee anymore.. I'm slightly concerned other toxins wouldn't be metabolized as well either, leading to early cancer down the road.

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#146
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boutique-roasted decaf coffee beans often are more expensive. But the logic also doesn't hold: it assumes coffee is being sold at or near the cost of its material inputs, and that's certainly not true. If you have a reasonable built-in margin for your coffee --- and boutique roasters certainly do --- it can be normal and rational to price irrespective of your cost basis. Customers are brand-loyal (especially if they…

I thought the means should be beans

The ends justify the beans.

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least part of the reason coffee plants produce caffeine is as a defense mechanism from insects. If you genetically engineer out the caffeine, your effort to farm the plant just went up if you aren't also able to genetically engineer insect resistance.

Besides that if the caffeine-free variants were to spread in the wild and cross-breed with regular coffee that would be disastrous.

Wouldn't the cross-bred wild coffee just fall prey to insects more often and diminish competitively?

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#148
post #77

I'd love if all psychoactive compounds could be removed from coffee beans. The stress response and inability to sleep I get from decaf beans is pretty much comparable to that from normal beans (and distinctly different from pure caffeine or green tea)

I quit caffeine a decade ago and am an evangelist for doing so; garbage drug. I'm very sensitive to it, and it absolutely wrecks my sleep. But I drink like five cups of black decaf every morning, which probably works out to 10-20% of the caffeine in a normal cup, and am pretty much fine. There's enough caffeine in decaf that I'd be afraid to drink it after 2PM.

> I quit caffeine a decade ago > I drink like five cups of black decaf every morning

You didn't really quit caffeine, you lowered intake.

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#149
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I quit caffeine a decade ago and am an evangelist for doing so; garbage drug. I'm very sensitive to it, and it absolutely wrecks my sleep. But I drink like five cups of black decaf every morning, which probably works out to 10-20% of the caffeine in a normal cup, and am pretty much fine. There's enough caffeine in decaf that I'd be afraid to drink it after 2PM.

I had to greatly reduce my caffeine intake at one point, and I've kept it down since. I'm inclined to agree that it's a garbage drug, but in small amounts and strictly in the morning work -like you do- it seems to work for me. Rather than drink 5 cups of decaf I drink one cup of decaf made with 6 parts decaf beans to 1 part caf. Then maybe later in the day I might eat three tiny pieces of 100% chocolate mass, but lik…

> I might eat three tiny pieces of 100% chocolate mass

Do you mean choco-nibs? love these, and they are great for adding crunch to things.

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#150
post #4

The decaf process seems expensive so you might expect the end result to cost more, but it never does. Which means either the producers are making less profit on decaf, or they are using lower quality beans. If the latter is true, which seems more likely, that might explain why decaf sometimes tastes less good, separately from the effect of the process itself on taste.

View it as a separation process wherein both products can be sold; the caffeine extract is also profitable.
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