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A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

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71–80 of 180 posts

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#71

I'd love if all psychoactive compounds could be removed from coffee beans. The stress response and inability to sleep I get from decaf beans is pretty much comparable to that from normal beans (and distinctly different from pure caffeine or green tea)

it might be easier to just artificially recreate "natural coffee flavor" than to try to remove everything

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#72

TIL about one of the solvents involved, ethyl acetate, and the fact that it is not good for you. How do I know that my local coffee shop's machine is working correctly and provides only safe levels of this solvent?

It smells like nail polish remover, well nail polish remover with the acetone subtracted, and it is noticeable well below any toxicity threshold. It's also a characteristic component of some fruit / fermentation aromas

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#73

TIL about one of the solvents involved, ethyl acetate, and the fact that it is not good for you. How do I know that my local coffee shop's machine is working correctly and provides only safe levels of this solvent?

I wouldn't expect a coffee shop to do the decaffeination there. Rather, the company that does the decaffeination is its own thing, which then ships their product to the roaster, which then ships their product to your local coffee shop.

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#74

TIL about one of the solvents involved, ethyl acetate, and the fact that it is not good for you. How do I know that my local coffee shop's machine is working correctly and provides only safe levels of this solvent?

how did you get that from the article?

"One of the common solvents, ethyl acetate, comes naturally in many foods and beverages. It’s considered a safe chemical for decaffeination by the Food and Drug Administration."

speaking from a chemist's perspective, ethyl acetate is basically non-toxic. it decomposes into ethanol and acetic acid (vinegar). dcm (methylene chloride) is toxic, but should be completely removed before it ever reaches you. the nice thing about volatile organic solvents is that they're...volatile, so they are easily stripped from coffee beans.

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#75
post #4

The decaf process seems expensive so you might expect the end result to cost more, but it never does. Which means either the producers are making less profit on decaf, or they are using lower quality beans. If the latter is true, which seems more likely, that might explain why decaf sometimes tastes less good, separately from the effect of the process itself on taste.

Boutique-roasted decaf coffee beans often are more expensive. But the logic also doesn't hold: it assumes coffee is being sold at or near the cost of its material inputs, and that's certainly not true. If you have a reasonable built-in margin for your coffee --- and boutique roasters certainly do --- it can be normal and rational to price irrespective of your cost basis. Customers are brand-loyal (especially if they have to go out of their way to buy your stuff). You want to get them in every packaging they're interested in. All sorts of products are "loss leaders", for that reason, and here we're not even talking about that; we're just talking about something slightly less profitable.

Finally, just a note that the "lower-quality bean" thing is itself sort of hollow, in that: you're probably not buying the absolute best quality means no matter what coffee you buy, even if you're driving to a coffee roaster to get them. Unless you're an extreme coffee weirdo, there is, I'd confidently bet, a higher-quality bean available to you that you're sacrificing because of cost and convenience. Certainly, if you're buying beans of any sort at a supermarket, the "best bean" thing is inoperative.

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#76
post #73

TIL about one of the solvents involved, ethyl acetate, and the fact that it is not good for you. How do I know that my local coffee shop's machine is working correctly and provides only safe levels of this solvent?

I wouldn't expect a coffee shop to do the decaffeination there. Rather, the company that does the decaffeination is its own thing, which then ships their product to the roaster, which then ships their product to your local coffee shop.

Also, if you're buying fancy coffee, chances are it's Swiss water process, for better or worse.

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#77

I'd love if all psychoactive compounds could be removed from coffee beans. The stress response and inability to sleep I get from decaf beans is pretty much comparable to that from normal beans (and distinctly different from pure caffeine or green tea)

I quit caffeine a decade ago and am an evangelist for doing so; garbage drug. I'm very sensitive to it, and it absolutely wrecks my sleep. But I drink like five cups of black decaf every morning, which probably works out to 10-20% of the caffeine in a normal cup, and am pretty much fine. There's enough caffeine in decaf that I'd be afraid to drink it after 2PM.

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#78
post #76
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't expect a coffee shop to do the decaffeination there. Rather, the company that does the decaffeination is its own thing, which then ships their product to the roaster, which then ships their product to your local coffee shop.

Also, if you're buying fancy coffee, chances are it's Swiss water process, for better or worse.

Worse? You mean in comparison to the CO2 one, which I hadn't heard of before?

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#79

TIL about one of the solvents involved, ethyl acetate, and the fact that it is not good for you. How do I know that my local coffee shop's machine is working correctly and provides only safe levels of this solvent?

There's probably more ethyl acetate in apple juice (it occurs naturally in fruit) than there is in the equivalent quantity of coffee. Because people freak out when they hear terms like "ethyl acetate", the industry has started calling this "sugar cane decaf".

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#80
post #78
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, if you're buying fancy coffee, chances are it's Swiss water process, for better or worse.

Worse? You mean in comparison to the CO2 one, which I hadn't heard of before?

My understanding of the consensus is that it favors EA decaf.
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