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Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

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Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#71

Post by mv4 »

scottlamb wrote: post #69
mv4 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's horrible if true. Perhaps for the new line, we should consider making our own instead of OEM. I appreciate your input.

> Perhaps for the new line, we should consider making our own instead of OEM. I'd love that. I would buy and recommend these. The big Chinese companies have good hardware and prices but as you can see I'm not a fan of their ethics. There are a few companies (e.g. GeoVision, and seemingly Reolink even though they're also Chinese) that at least don't seem genocidal but don't offer the good low-light performance. Axis h…

I have a few Reolink outdoor cameras (again using them as video sources, with cool features disabled) and I am generally happy with the performance. I've had one of them fail after a couple of years. Axis pricing is insane, but they work well.

I will keep you posted about what we roll out. Maybe do a ShowHN even (that's a scary concept)?

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#72

Post by mv4 »

vivekkairi wrote: post #35

I faced a similar problem recently, where the IP cam I had was streaming video through the internet and it was Chinese ofcourse. But I found a much simpler solution to avoid it. The camera had rstp support and internet forums have already guessed the rstp url so I used that to hook it upto my surveillance system. Regarding avoiding transmission to internet, I just disabled internet access to that device and boom it b…

This is the way. All my cameras are "offline", serving RTSP streams and snapshots on my local network.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#73

Post by beryilma »

mv4 wrote: post #64
beryilma wrote: post #61

With my limited knowledge of network technologies, I still found it relatively easy to setup a Pi Zero + Raspberry Pi Camera Module system to stream video over RTSP to VLC software on my desktop or phone. The stream quality is pretty crappy, but I am hoping that, at least, this would not send my video to some Chinese servers. Anybody else experimented with such setup?

Yes, most of our early product prototyping was Pi-based. I've experimented with cameras, parallel stream processing, opencv, even voice assistants. It's a great platform. Happy to answer any questions. Also, lots of tutorials (on Medium and YT) for your exact setup.

I looked at some tutorials and videos, but I can't seem to be able to create a smooth stream no matter what I try: different frame rates, different resolutions, etc. RTSP streaming works reliably for me, but the stream is always choppy. Have you had a better experience?

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#74

Post by PaulHoule »

mv4 wrote: post #24
PaulHoule wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far I use the web interface to check in on Bob B live when I am in the other house (where I live) or in the house that he's in (which has two rental units under renovation) One time I saw he was on the floor and I ran over to the other house to peek in through the window on him which seemed to piss him off. So I try not to do that. https://zoneminder.com/ works with many camera brands and can do all sorts of detec…

Sounds like a good DIY option. Do you have to pay for their remote access service to monitor the cat remotely? (asking because I saw it on their pricing page, wondering whether required or optional)

I have not done remote access with it.

I wish I could run Tailscale on it and use it everywhere with my tablets, laptops, etc. but I can't. You could probably port forward the web server, but you could have a premium experience with ZoneMinder.

I picked that camera out because I was looking at ZoneMinder's web page and thought Amcrest had a pretty good product line in terms of value. At my Uni they've installed a lot of Axis IP cameras which are quite a bit more expensive and are definitely tougher and higher performance.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#75

Post by RulerOf »

mv4 wrote: post #67
RulerOf wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I had my first child a decade ago, someone gifted me a PTZ camera that was viewable through a smartphone app. I set it up, connected it to wifi, and it worked... for about 4 days. Resetting it didn't work. Called the company and they sent a replacement. Same thing happened. I noticed that it had used UPnP to map a public port to itself. I never tried hitting it with anything, but I made the assumption that it wa…

One piece of advice - when it comes to privacy and security, wired > wifi. I always recommend wiring (PoE). Jammers have recently become cheap and accessible, and burglars can now turn off whole neighborhoods. [1] https://ktla.com/news/local-news/police-warn-of-thieves-usin... [2] https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/columnist/komando/2024/0...

I absolutely do. I don't find wireless cameras to be a compelling product in any personal or professional use case, but I see their appeal. I only used the thing because it was a gift.

When it comes to baby monitors, which the device I had was marketed as, I actually prefer analog (because static is better than non-functional) with a dedicated receiver, but I'll use just about anything without a TCP/IP stack :)

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#76

Post by hattmall »

cameldrv wrote: post #23

These cameras are extremely suspicious -- just follow the money. I bought some cheap Chinese cameras in 2020 that by default send the video stream to a Chinese server, which you can watch with an app on your phone. The cameras were about $40 on Amazon, so my guess is the manufacturer was getting paid maybe $15-20 for them. Bandwidth to and from China is not that cheap, and you could be running this stream 24x7. The s…

A lot of them the stream is just a relay to create a connection between you and the camera via Upnp or something similar. They aren't actually footing a bill for all the bandwidth.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#77

Post by ssl-3 »

mv4 wrote: post #60
ssl-3 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better on-device identification of objects and motion would be useful. I care more about a person standing on my porch than I do the neighbor's cat. Better local integration would also be useful. (Axis cameras have supported writing (and recycling) video on a local SMB share for a very long time, with nothing special required on the back end -- but they're not consumer products). Improved image quality would also be…

Other than Home Assistant, do you feel integrating with Apple Home and/or SmartThings ecosystem would be valuable?

I guess that depends on who's asking, and what kind of response they want.

At home, I don't use Apple Home or SmartThings. It is unlikely that I ever will.

I own an iPad that I use every day and my phone is a Samsung, but I already have already adopted enough ecosystems with Google Home, Alexa, and Home Assistant, and I'm working on minimizing or eliminating two of those because they're clown-based.

But I am a geek that likes to tinker with electronics and software. I recognize that I am an outlier.

But I will cheerfully pay extra for stuff that Just Works with Home Assistant without using the clown, and that would probably apply to cameras as well.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#78

Post by ww520 »

mv4 wrote: post #57
ww520 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a setup that works. Get POE cameras. Get a powered switch with sufficient power to power the cameras. The cameras and the switch form their own subnet. Get a PC with two Ethernet jacks (or an Ethernet and a WIFI). Install NVR software, Blue Iris, iSpy, ZoneMinder, etc, on the PC to record and process the videos from the cameras. These softwares are all good with RTSP and ONVIF, with easy camera detection via p…

This will absolutely work if you know what you're doing. Similar to what I proposed with the NVR+PoE. Also, this feels like my Dropbox moment (the infamous comment below) :) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 I am trying to remove this complexity.

Sorry if I came off negatively. I was responding to OP. Your products look good. Here's a bit of my experience on using NVR if that helps in better product design.

Most NVR's are PC + powered switch built into one. I found them to be running very hot most of the times since they need a fairly beefy power supply to power the cameras and the PC itself. The WIFI only NVR's are much better and the only power drawn is video processing on the PC. Blink Module is a good example.

Another problem is the tight integration of hardware. When I have more cameras than the PoE jacks on the NVR, it becomes obsolete. When some hardware fails on the NVR, the whole thing fails. My last integrated NVR developed a problem in the disk controller and the whole thing couldn't be salvaged.

In the next round of setting the system up, I decided to de-couple all the pieces for better maintenance and upgradibility. The sweet spot I found is: cameras + powered switch + PC + NVR software + external USB storage. It has work great so far. The old PC was underpowered and I swapped it out without impacting the other pieces. I added more disks as needed with minimum fuss. I replaced some of the cameras without much problem.

You're right in that ordinary customers probably won't do all those. For a customer product, a NVR that works with WIFI cameras makes the easiest sales. It has much lower hardware requirement thus keeping the cost down. WIFI cameras are easier to set up and thus plentiful. If it has an Ethernet jack, you can sell a separate powered switch to make it work with the PoE cameras. Basically it's a souped up Blink Module that works with other cameras, with storage, and can stream to apps and web.

I mean you can sell a whole package of the pieces, plus phone apps and cloud storage, to offer a complete solution. Most of the pieces are off the shelf, but you can still offer a complete solution with some critical proprietary pieces like your NVR software. Of course you can offer piece by piece as needed, as long as all the pieces can fit together. There're a lot of cross selling opportunities.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#79

Post by userbinator »

cameldrv wrote: post #23

These cameras are extremely suspicious -- just follow the money. I bought some cheap Chinese cameras in 2020 that by default send the video stream to a Chinese server, which you can watch with an app on your phone. The cameras were about $40 on Amazon, so my guess is the manufacturer was getting paid maybe $15-20 for them. Bandwidth to and from China is not that cheap, and you could be running this stream 24x7. The s…

You can still get the "dumb" non-cloud ones for similar prices.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#80

Post by theendisney »

mv4 wrote: post #13

Since someone mentioned 'declouding' here, my startup (well, scaleup now) makes a few privacy-first, autonomous (no cloud) video security products - on-prem video security hub, relays for automation, cameras. I was also getting sick of cloud-based 'smart' cameras that ping random servers in China, so we made our own 'dumb' cameras that are fast (Uniview hardware with our firmware inside). If anyone here is interested…

It should be fine to add a link.
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