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Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

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Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#21

Post by cbsks »

mv4 wrote: post #17
fusslo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what I've been looking for. There's plenty of cheap RTSP and ONVIF compliant cameras coming out of china, but I trust them exactly 0%. I also don't trust us-based companies with remote access via their services. So I'm learning how to partition my home network to not allow the cameras on a vlan to not access the outside world. But then I need to figure out how to access the video streams.. from the ne…

Mine are ONVIF-discoverable and will expose RTSP (H264 and H265) URLs and a snapshot URL. As I mentioned, they are 'dumb' (video and snapshots are their main purpose), and it's the security hub that makes them smart. No cloud-based remote access, your data stays on your device. If you decide to check it out, and feel free to ping me (email in profile). I am proud of these things, for the reasons you mentioned :) http…

I’m interested! I have a few cheap Poe cameras but the rtsp connection is always flaky on them. Your email is not in your profile by the way.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#22

Post by PaulHoule »

mv4 wrote: post #19
PaulHoule wrote: post #12

I am using an Amcrest camera to watch my feral cat Bob B when I am not there. (I am working on him getting enough trust to walk around in the floor when I am there but it is still something he does every other day) I was amazed at how easy it is, especially the software experience. The mobile app is easy, the web app is easy, RTSP is easy. If I want to add more camers and set up a server to record (like ZoneMinder) t…

Is this motion-detection based, or does that camera have cat detection?

So far I use the web interface to check in on Bob B live when I am in the other house (where I live) or in the house that he's in (which has two rental units under renovation)

One time I saw he was on the floor and I ran over to the other house to peek in through the window on him which seemed to piss him off. So I try not to do that.

https://zoneminder.com/

works with many camera brands and can do all sorts of detection. It's a slight hassle because Zoneminder wants its own filesystem, I could install a spare SSD I have into my home server or maybe I could set up another computer to be a zoneminder server in the rental. I have a microwave link between the houses and it might be better to spare it, but I am worried that anything in the cat room could get sprayed on.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#23

Post by cameldrv »

These cameras are extremely suspicious -- just follow the money. I bought some cheap Chinese cameras in 2020 that by default send the video stream to a Chinese server, which you can watch with an app on your phone. The cameras were about $40 on Amazon, so my guess is the manufacturer was getting paid maybe $15-20 for them.

Bandwidth to and from China is not that cheap, and you could be running this stream 24x7. The streaming service still works 4 years later even though the company whose name is on the camera has vanished.

So, who is paying the server/bandwidth bill? The camera is too cheap to afford indefinitely providing this service, so you can only presume that you're paying in another way. Probably there is some third party in China that the camera manufacturer makes a deal with. The camera manufacturer may even be getting paid to pick a particular provider.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#24

Post by mv4 »

PaulHoule wrote: post #22
mv4 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this motion-detection based, or does that camera have cat detection?

So far I use the web interface to check in on Bob B live when I am in the other house (where I live) or in the house that he's in (which has two rental units under renovation) One time I saw he was on the floor and I ran over to the other house to peek in through the window on him which seemed to piss him off. So I try not to do that. https://zoneminder.com/ works with many camera brands and can do all sorts of detec…

Sounds like a good DIY option. Do you have to pay for their remote access service to monitor the cat remotely? (asking because I saw it on their pricing page, wondering whether required or optional)

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#25

Post by mv4 »

cbsks wrote: post #21
mv4 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mine are ONVIF-discoverable and will expose RTSP (H264 and H265) URLs and a snapshot URL. As I mentioned, they are 'dumb' (video and snapshots are their main purpose), and it's the security hub that makes them smart. No cloud-based remote access, your data stays on your device. If you decide to check it out, and feel free to ping me (email in profile). I am proud of these things, for the reasons you mentioned :) http…

I’m interested! I have a few cheap Poe cameras but the rtsp connection is always flaky on them. Your email is not in your profile by the way.

Thanks, just added email (+LinkedIn).

Happy to chat. Not selling direct-to-consumer yet (going through installers and integrators) but that's coming.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#26

Post by mv4 »

fusslo wrote: post #14
mv4 wrote: post #13

Since someone mentioned 'declouding' here, my startup (well, scaleup now) makes a few privacy-first, autonomous (no cloud) video security products - on-prem video security hub, relays for automation, cameras. I was also getting sick of cloud-based 'smart' cameras that ping random servers in China, so we made our own 'dumb' cameras that are fast (Uniview hardware with our firmware inside). If anyone here is interested…

This is exactly what I've been looking for. There's plenty of cheap RTSP and ONVIF compliant cameras coming out of china, but I trust them exactly 0%. I also don't trust us-based companies with remote access via their services. So I'm learning how to partition my home network to not allow the cameras on a vlan to not access the outside world. But then I need to figure out how to access the video streams.. from the ne…

If your cameras are PoE, you can use an NVR that doubles as a PoE switch and can create a separate network for the cameras. Some NVRs will also relay RTSP from them so it will be accessible on your LAN. Alternatively, adding static routes to devices will allow them to see the cameras locally.

Unfortunately, the NVR will probably have the same type of vulnerabilities as the cameras in question (they come from same manufacturers).

Or, use something we've built :)

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#27

Post by mv4 »

MarkusQ wrote: post #4
soylentcola wrote: post #3

Only thing I'd mention is that the old school "web server runs on camera" model is really dodgy when the average user just plugs it in, fires up a mobile app, and sees their camera - then assumes all is well. So many security issues and exploits for those things. Hardcoded passwords, backdoors, and loads of exploits for gaining SSH or telnet access on very common models. As much as I hate the current shift toward cam…

So to avoid the risk of someone wardriving your neighborhood and hacking into your camera, it's better to...send all the data to China and trust them to protect it?

In all fairness (there are multiple precedents), a US-based provider won't protect your data (from internal employees) either. Any centralized video monitoring system is a ticking time bomb.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#28

Post by mv4 »

krunck wrote: post #9

"This first difficulty was to find information about the camera. Despite having a company logo printed on its front, I could not find any information about this company on Google. I found several identical cameras being sold online, but under different brands, all of them seem to be Chinese names." Why does this continue to surprise people? So much sketchy garbage coming out of China is sold under numerous "brands".…

This is true for the top, known' brands as well.

Wyze camera (top seller on Amazon) is a Tianjin Hualai Technology camera https://www.hualaikeji.com/en/product

Roku just rolled our a similar cube-shaped cam (you can tell by the overall design).

There's very little real innovation happening in consumer cameras right now.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#29

Post by mv4 »

mv4 wrote: post #27
MarkusQ wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So to avoid the risk of someone wardriving your neighborhood and hacking into your camera, it's better to...send all the data to China and trust them to protect it?

In all fairness (there are multiple precedents), a US-based provider won't protect your data (from internal employees) either. Any centralized video monitoring system is a ticking time bomb.

Sorry, why the downvotes? Is something here factually incorrect? Didn't AT&T just 'lose' private data from "almost all customers"? The only truly private option is keeping your data on-prem.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#30

Post by kajecounterhack »

mv4 wrote: post #20

This may come as a surprise, but it's not just hackers (or China) that you need to worry about. I've worked at a couple of FAANGs (risk, privacy, compliance) and was shocked by the lack of internal guardrails. Here's Amazon Ring settling with the FTC - company's own employees were watching customer video feeds for entertainment: https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/refunds/ring-refunds Tesla's been caught doing similar th…

I use Nest cameras at home instead of ring because based on work at Google I expect there to be strong internal guardrails relative to Ring (also heard about their lax standards), but happy to hear anecdata from (ex-)Nest engineers about potential issues.
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