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Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

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Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#51

Post by mv4 »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #45
mv4 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true for the top, known' brands as well. Wyze camera (top seller on Amazon) is a Tianjin Hualai Technology camera https://www.hualaikeji.com/en/product Roku just rolled our a similar cube-shaped cam (you can tell by the overall design). There's very little real innovation happening in consumer cameras right now.

I mean, what exactly do you need innovated? I have a bunch of these cheap cameras (firewalled to only be accessible via LAN of course) that are nearly 6 years old now. They stream 2K video reliably, my DVR records for me, they have excellent quality night-vision via infrared, and I can access them via VPN. What's to improve here?

I don't. I am happy with 2k video in most cases, and good picture quality in low light conditions (accurate color is nice also). 2-way audio can be useful but not a deal breaker.

What I meant when I said there's very little real innovation is exactly that - the fundamentals are good enough (and have been for a few years), and the bulk of product innovation is in how to make cameras smart with AI - which only makes them slower. I like my cameras dumb and fast.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#52

Post by mv4 »

pettycashstash2 wrote: post #41

As an example Lorex, a Canadian security camera company founded in 1991, is currently owned by Dahua Technology, a major Chinese video surveillance manufacturer. Dahua acquired Lorex in 2018, which has led to some security concerns and restrictions on Lorex products' use by U.S. government agencies. Lorex cameras aren't banned for personal use in the US, but face restrictions for government agencies due to cybersecur…

fyi the list of manufacturers banned by the FCC: https://www.fcc.gov/supplychain/coveredlist

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#53

Post by mv4 »

starky wrote: post #50
mv4 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true for the top, known' brands as well. Wyze camera (top seller on Amazon) is a Tianjin Hualai Technology camera https://www.hualaikeji.com/en/product Roku just rolled our a similar cube-shaped cam (you can tell by the overall design). There's very little real innovation happening in consumer cameras right now.

I mean, there isn't much the cameras have to do. They need an SoC that can process relatively low resolution video and output it over a network. Anything complex is intended to be done through a cloud service to sell a subscription. Consumers don't want to pay for expensive cameras, so they use an OEM that has designed a super basic camera that is built in high volumes to make use of economies of scale.

We've done exactly that with our cameras, I feel cameras are a commodity. Our Cameras are built by Uniview but run our firmware.

Outside of cameras (which also feel need to be very basic), we do have our own hardware design and manufacturing capabilities: video security hubs, PoE and WiFi relays.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#54

Post by mv4 »

habibur wrote: post #49
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, what exactly do you need innovated? I have a bunch of these cheap cameras (firewalled to only be accessible via LAN of course) that are nearly 6 years old now. They stream 2K video reliably, my DVR records for me, they have excellent quality night-vision via infrared, and I can access them via VPN. What's to improve here?

Smart camera. Attach a microphone and speaker with the camera. Any movement at odd times and you get a WhatsApp video call on your cell phone. You can watch the other person and can talk to him, "Hay! what are you doing at my home?" I was wondering if that's already available or not.

Yes this is already available. Most major camera lines now offer 2-way audio (siren, voice) to do exactly that.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#55

Post by mv4 »

scottlamb wrote: post #48
mv4 wrote: post #13

Since someone mentioned 'declouding' here, my startup (well, scaleup now) makes a few privacy-first, autonomous (no cloud) video security products - on-prem video security hub, relays for automation, cameras. I was also getting sick of cloud-based 'smart' cameras that ping random servers in China, so we made our own 'dumb' cameras that are fast (Uniview hardware with our firmware inside). If anyone here is interested…

I've been looking for a camera to recommend for use with my open-source NVR. [1] This sounds promising, but I have a few questions. * What's the status of Uniview? Are their cameras allowed in the US under the 2019 NDAA? still receiving FCC approvals since the Secure Equipment Act of 2021? Does Uniview participate in the Uyghur genocide? * Do you have any models with large sensors, e.g. 1/1.8" or wider? I prefer good…

1. Uniview [told me] they are NDAA compliant. Most (not all) of their NVRs and cameras are compliant. I was not aware of their involvement in the genocide, but I do see mentions of their facial recognition tech potentially being used. I don't know enough to comment.

This is their formal statement regarding their NDAA status:

https://www.uniview.com/us/About_Us/Legal_Notice/Notice/2020...

2. we are now working in a new line that will have larger sensors, better low-light capabilities, better audio (2-way). We will publish more in Q4.

3. we've been working with professional installers primarily focusing on SMB, so our current 4MP (2.8mm and 4.0mm) cameras can be in $100-200 range depending on volume. 2MP cameras are sold in $80-130 range. With SMB, price hasn't been an issue. I understand this is not particularly useful for DIY, we're just preparing to start selling direct - and aiming to release cameras in $30-80 range.

You can ping me (contact info in profile) if you need more info, or how to evaluate risk-free. Just bear with me as we figure out the DIY route. :)

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#56

Post by mv4 »

scottlamb wrote: post #48
mv4 wrote: post #13

Since someone mentioned 'declouding' here, my startup (well, scaleup now) makes a few privacy-first, autonomous (no cloud) video security products - on-prem video security hub, relays for automation, cameras. I was also getting sick of cloud-based 'smart' cameras that ping random servers in China, so we made our own 'dumb' cameras that are fast (Uniview hardware with our firmware inside). If anyone here is interested…

I've been looking for a camera to recommend for use with my open-source NVR. [1] This sounds promising, but I have a few questions. * What's the status of Uniview? Are their cameras allowed in the US under the 2019 NDAA? still receiving FCC approvals since the Secure Equipment Act of 2021? Does Uniview participate in the Uyghur genocide? * Do you have any models with large sensors, e.g. 1/1.8" or wider? I prefer good…

... note that good nigh performance also requires more light gathering capacity (better glass), not just a bigger sensor. Can't multiply photons.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#57

Post by mv4 »

ww520 wrote: post #46
fusslo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what I've been looking for. There's plenty of cheap RTSP and ONVIF compliant cameras coming out of china, but I trust them exactly 0%. I also don't trust us-based companies with remote access via their services. So I'm learning how to partition my home network to not allow the cameras on a vlan to not access the outside world. But then I need to figure out how to access the video streams.. from the ne…

Here's a setup that works. Get POE cameras. Get a powered switch with sufficient power to power the cameras. The cameras and the switch form their own subnet. Get a PC with two Ethernet jacks (or an Ethernet and a WIFI). Install NVR software, Blue Iris, iSpy, ZoneMinder, etc, on the PC to record and process the videos from the cameras. These softwares are all good with RTSP and ONVIF, with easy camera detection via p…

This will absolutely work if you know what you're doing. Similar to what I proposed with the NVR+PoE.

Also, this feels like my Dropbox moment (the infamous comment below) :)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224

I am trying to remove this complexity.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#58

Post by ssl-3 »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #45
mv4 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true for the top, known' brands as well. Wyze camera (top seller on Amazon) is a Tianjin Hualai Technology camera https://www.hualaikeji.com/en/product Roku just rolled our a similar cube-shaped cam (you can tell by the overall design). There's very little real innovation happening in consumer cameras right now.

I mean, what exactly do you need innovated? I have a bunch of these cheap cameras (firewalled to only be accessible via LAN of course) that are nearly 6 years old now. They stream 2K video reliably, my DVR records for me, they have excellent quality night-vision via infrared, and I can access them via VPN. What's to improve here?

Better on-device identification of objects and motion would be useful. I care more about a person standing on my porch than I do the neighbor's cat.

Better local integration would also be useful. (Axis cameras have supported writing (and recycling) video on a local SMB share for a very long time, with nothing special required on the back end -- but they're not consumer products).

Improved image quality would also be useful. There always seems to be a certain softness and definite lack of fluidity in consumer cameras that has been solved in things like cheap smartphones and GoPros for a over a decade.

Tight integration with local home automation systems like Home Assistant would be great, so I can observe and control all of the things from a central point using my pocket supercomputer.

But otherwise: If all one wants from a camera is for it to take OK-ish pictures and send them down the pipe, then that's a reasonably-solved problem.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#59

Post by scottlamb »

mv4 wrote: post #55
scottlamb wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been looking for a camera to recommend for use with my open-source NVR. [1] This sounds promising, but I have a few questions. * What's the status of Uniview? Are their cameras allowed in the US under the 2019 NDAA? still receiving FCC approvals since the Secure Equipment Act of 2021? Does Uniview participate in the Uyghur genocide? * Do you have any models with large sensors, e.g. 1/1.8" or wider? I prefer good…

1. Uniview [told me] they are NDAA compliant. Most (not all) of their NVRs and cameras are compliant. I was not aware of their involvement in the genocide, but I do see mentions of their facial recognition tech potentially being used. I don't know enough to comment. This is their formal statement regarding their NDAA status: https://www.uniview.com/us/About_Us/Legal_Notice/Notice/2020... 2. we are now working in a ne…

Man, so close. Your prices sound really reasonable to me, it's nice to hear that you're preparing for direct sales and for a larger-sensor line. But this does not look good: https://ipvm.com/reports/uniview-uyghur

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#60

Post by mv4 »

ssl-3 wrote: post #58
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, what exactly do you need innovated? I have a bunch of these cheap cameras (firewalled to only be accessible via LAN of course) that are nearly 6 years old now. They stream 2K video reliably, my DVR records for me, they have excellent quality night-vision via infrared, and I can access them via VPN. What's to improve here?

Better on-device identification of objects and motion would be useful. I care more about a person standing on my porch than I do the neighbor's cat. Better local integration would also be useful. (Axis cameras have supported writing (and recycling) video on a local SMB share for a very long time, with nothing special required on the back end -- but they're not consumer products). Improved image quality would also be…

Other than Home Assistant, do you feel integrating with Apple Home and/or SmartThings ecosystem would be valuable?
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