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Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

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Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#41

Post by pettycashstash2 »

As an example Lorex, a Canadian security camera company founded in 1991, is currently owned by Dahua Technology, a major Chinese video surveillance manufacturer. Dahua acquired Lorex in 2018, which has led to some security concerns and restrictions on Lorex products' use by U.S. government agencies.

Lorex cameras aren't banned for personal use in the US, but face restrictions for government agencies due to cybersecurity concerns. If you own a Lorex NVR system:

Update firmware regularly Use strong passwords Limit remote access Consider network segmentation Monitor for unusual activity

No need to discard your system, but stay informed about developments. Alternative options exist if you're concerned.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#42

Post by fuzzfactor »

stacktrust wrote: post #7
fuzzfactor wrote: post #2

It would be really good to see this kind of effort on the Amazon Blink cameras, I know people who are returning them because they are app-trash no differently than the no-name (multiple ghost names actually) hardware like this. There's lots of garbage cameras now of various quality that behave the same way. What's needed is a replacement firmware and simple flashing technique for the most popular units to appear, so…

Blink cameras have amazing battery life due to proprietary silicon, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40065319 > These would be tough as they are based on a proprietary ASIC which is poorly documented even for internal developers. Ask me how I know. Teardown thread, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33683122

Yikes, that ASIC is so advanced that any product built around it will in some ways be designed for the landfill far more so than an equivalent that was generic.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#43

Post by scottlamb »

pettycashstash2 wrote: post #41

As an example Lorex, a Canadian security camera company founded in 1991, is currently owned by Dahua Technology, a major Chinese video surveillance manufacturer. Dahua acquired Lorex in 2018, which has led to some security concerns and restrictions on Lorex products' use by U.S. government agencies. Lorex cameras aren't banned for personal use in the US, but face restrictions for government agencies due to cybersecur…

Lorex cameras were rebranded Chinese cameras before 2018, too. For example, the Lorex MCNB2151 is a Hikvision DS-2CD2032. I think they had Hikvision and Dahua models prior to 2018; maybe it's all Dahua now.

> Lorex cameras aren't banned for personal use in the US, but face restrictions for government agencies due to cybersecurity concerns.

Not entirely sure the first half of this is true. iirc not only are many banned for government use under the 2019 National Defense Authorization Act, but also they've stopped issuing FCC approvals for many of these under the Secure Equipment Act of 2021.

It'd be easy to get around this ban, but I won't. I believe Dahua and Hikvision are active participants in the Uyghur genocide. They've made custom software specifically to support this genocide (ethnic feature identification models) and have contracted to install their cameras themselves at "re-education camps". See e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/30/uyghur-tribuna...

I am still using some Hikvision and Dahua cameras I bought prior to learning about this. My network configuration does not allow them to contact the outside world. My NVR connects to them via RTSP. This is the only way to do it with cheap, untrustworthy closed-source IP cameras.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#44

Post by embeddedsw »

codetrotter wrote: post #37
cameldrv wrote: post #23

These cameras are extremely suspicious -- just follow the money. I bought some cheap Chinese cameras in 2020 that by default send the video stream to a Chinese server, which you can watch with an app on your phone. The cameras were about $40 on Amazon, so my guess is the manufacturer was getting paid maybe $15-20 for them. Bandwidth to and from China is not that cheap, and you could be running this stream 24x7. The s…

I bought one on AliExpress for just under 18 EUR. Mine works similarly, that it streams to some server in the cloud. I knew this, and only connected it for testing a little bit and made sure to not put my face or any of my documents etc in view of the camera. The company behind the one I bought does seem to have a slightly better business model though. With them you can use it free to see live or you can pay them a m…

I use a Raspberry Pi to run a Tailscale subnet router on the LAN. I installed some cheap IP cams but blocked all Internet access so they can only access my LAN. With the Tailscale subnet router I can still get remote access to the camera streams from my phone.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#45

Post by ToucanLoucan »

mv4 wrote: post #28
krunck wrote: post #9

"This first difficulty was to find information about the camera. Despite having a company logo printed on its front, I could not find any information about this company on Google. I found several identical cameras being sold online, but under different brands, all of them seem to be Chinese names." Why does this continue to surprise people? So much sketchy garbage coming out of China is sold under numerous "brands".…

This is true for the top, known' brands as well. Wyze camera (top seller on Amazon) is a Tianjin Hualai Technology camera https://www.hualaikeji.com/en/product Roku just rolled our a similar cube-shaped cam (you can tell by the overall design). There's very little real innovation happening in consumer cameras right now.

I mean, what exactly do you need innovated? I have a bunch of these cheap cameras (firewalled to only be accessible via LAN of course) that are nearly 6 years old now. They stream 2K video reliably, my DVR records for me, they have excellent quality night-vision via infrared, and I can access them via VPN. What's to improve here?

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#46

Post by ww520 »

fusslo wrote: post #14
mv4 wrote: post #13

Since someone mentioned 'declouding' here, my startup (well, scaleup now) makes a few privacy-first, autonomous (no cloud) video security products - on-prem video security hub, relays for automation, cameras. I was also getting sick of cloud-based 'smart' cameras that ping random servers in China, so we made our own 'dumb' cameras that are fast (Uniview hardware with our firmware inside). If anyone here is interested…

This is exactly what I've been looking for. There's plenty of cheap RTSP and ONVIF compliant cameras coming out of china, but I trust them exactly 0%. I also don't trust us-based companies with remote access via their services. So I'm learning how to partition my home network to not allow the cameras on a vlan to not access the outside world. But then I need to figure out how to access the video streams.. from the ne…

Here's a setup that works. Get POE cameras. Get a powered switch with sufficient power to power the cameras. The cameras and the switch form their own subnet. Get a PC with two Ethernet jacks (or an Ethernet and a WIFI). Install NVR software, Blue Iris, iSpy, ZoneMinder, etc, on the PC to record and process the videos from the cameras. These softwares are all good with RTSP and ONVIF, with easy camera detection via port scanning. Connect the PC to the switch on one Ehternet jack and connect it to your general network with the other one (or WIFI). The cameras are running in their little isolated subnet. The NVR PC sits between the camera subnet and the general subnet. Access from outside reaches the NVR PC only, not the cameras. You can even open the WAN firewall to reach the PC's WIFI side to access the videos from Internet. Some of these NVR software can stream videos to outside phone apps or web apps.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#47

Post by RulerOf »

soylentcola wrote: post #3

Only thing I'd mention is that the old school "web server runs on camera" model is really dodgy when the average user just plugs it in, fires up a mobile app, and sees their camera - then assumes all is well. So many security issues and exploits for those things. Hardcoded passwords, backdoors, and loads of exploits for gaining SSH or telnet access on very common models. As much as I hate the current shift toward cam…

When I had my first child a decade ago, someone gifted me a PTZ camera that was viewable through a smartphone app.

I set it up, connected it to wifi, and it worked... for about 4 days. Resetting it didn't work. Called the company and they sent a replacement. Same thing happened.

I noticed that it had used UPnP to map a public port to itself. I never tried hitting it with anything, but I made the assumption that it was getting pwned. I threw it away.

That experience makes me agree with your assessment.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#48

Post by scottlamb »

mv4 wrote: post #13

Since someone mentioned 'declouding' here, my startup (well, scaleup now) makes a few privacy-first, autonomous (no cloud) video security products - on-prem video security hub, relays for automation, cameras. I was also getting sick of cloud-based 'smart' cameras that ping random servers in China, so we made our own 'dumb' cameras that are fast (Uniview hardware with our firmware inside). If anyone here is interested…

I've been looking for a camera to recommend for use with my open-source NVR. [1] This sounds promising, but I have a few questions.

* What's the status of Uniview? Are their cameras allowed in the US under the 2019 NDAA? still receiving FCC approvals since the Secure Equipment Act of 2021? Does Uniview participate in the Uyghur genocide?

* Do you have any models with large sensors, e.g. 1/1.8" or wider? I prefer good night performance if possible, which I believe requires each pixel to be physically somewhat large. There are a lot of many-megapixel cameras with 1/3" sensors out there, which aren't so great there.

* What's the pricing? Your camera page [2] has "contact us for info" instead of a price, and when that happens I usually assume it's too expensive for the DIY crowd and drop out.

[1] https://github.com/scottlamb/moonfire-nvr

[2] https://monitoreal.com/product/monitoreal-perimeter-cameras-...

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#49

Post by habibur »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #45
mv4 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true for the top, known' brands as well. Wyze camera (top seller on Amazon) is a Tianjin Hualai Technology camera https://www.hualaikeji.com/en/product Roku just rolled our a similar cube-shaped cam (you can tell by the overall design). There's very little real innovation happening in consumer cameras right now.

I mean, what exactly do you need innovated? I have a bunch of these cheap cameras (firewalled to only be accessible via LAN of course) that are nearly 6 years old now. They stream 2K video reliably, my DVR records for me, they have excellent quality night-vision via infrared, and I can access them via VPN. What's to improve here?

Smart camera. Attach a microphone and speaker with the camera. Any movement at odd times and you get a WhatsApp video call on your cell phone. You can watch the other person and can talk to him, "Hay! what are you doing at my home?"

I was wondering if that's already available or not.

Re: Reverse-Engineering an IP Camera (2019)

#50

Post by starky »

mv4 wrote: post #28
krunck wrote: post #9

"This first difficulty was to find information about the camera. Despite having a company logo printed on its front, I could not find any information about this company on Google. I found several identical cameras being sold online, but under different brands, all of them seem to be Chinese names." Why does this continue to surprise people? So much sketchy garbage coming out of China is sold under numerous "brands".…

This is true for the top, known' brands as well. Wyze camera (top seller on Amazon) is a Tianjin Hualai Technology camera https://www.hualaikeji.com/en/product Roku just rolled our a similar cube-shaped cam (you can tell by the overall design). There's very little real innovation happening in consumer cameras right now.

I mean, there isn't much the cameras have to do. They need an SoC that can process relatively low resolution video and output it over a network. Anything complex is intended to be done through a cloud service to sell a subscription. Consumers don't want to pay for expensive cameras, so they use an OEM that has designed a super basic camera that is built in high volumes to make use of economies of scale.
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