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For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

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Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#491

Post by mort96 »

marcosdumay wrote: post #456
mort96 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait aren't browsers already trying to implement anti-tracking measures? Are you saying Mozilla has been holding back improving anti-tracking for the benefit of advertisers until now? Now that is evil

> Wait aren't browsers already trying to implement anti-tracking measures? Yes, and trackers are investing large sums of money into breaking those measures. If you give advertisers a lawful non-user-threatening way to measure their ads performance, a lot of that money may disappear. (Or it may not, or it may disappear either way. That one market is crazy and I know almost nothing about it. But the claim that the mone…

But this is exactly what I wrote that I don't believe in my initial comment. There'll always be more money in more intrusive tracking. Why would they give that up? Surely Mozilla is selling out to advertisers based on something more substantive than "we hope that advertisers won't keep taking a mile if we give an inch"?

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#492

Post by mccr8 »

latexr wrote: post #252
ninjin wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come now, let us be realistic, no one and nothing funds browser development other than advertisement: https://ladybird.org/#sponsors

That is provably false. Safari isn’t funded by advertising, neither is Orion, or LibreWolf, or any number of other smaller open-source browsers.

According to news stories, Apple received $20 billion dollars in 2022 from Google to make Google the default search in Safari.

https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/2/24147007/google-paid-apple...

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#493

Post by DaoVeles »

brettermeier wrote: post #62
DaoVeles wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elinks via Termux? /jk For those that don't know, Elinks is a text only terminal browser.

Lol, nobody wants that. Recommend Mull or something else sensible. Edit: Whoopsy, oversaw your /jk

All good! That said I do like the genuine recommendation. Will look at that.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#494

Post by DaoVeles »

mrweasel wrote: post #172
DaoVeles wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elinks via Termux? /jk For those that don't know, Elinks is a text only terminal browser.

While the jokes is appreciated, I'm also half-serious in considering just using Links/Elinks or w3m and just use whatever is the default browser on my OS for those cases where I need to book ticket or do banking. I'm sadly falling out of love with the web. So much fun and enjoyment have left the web in the past 20 years and I don't enjoy or to some extend even benefit from the modern hellscape of modern commercial we…

I already do this a lot on my desktop. Running on of the FSF approved distros, I have three layers of browsers.

1. Links/Elinks for most stuff.

2. If that doesn't work, Trisquel Abrowser which is a privacy focused fork of Firefox.

3. If that doesn't work, Vivaldi browser in a sabdvox to get that Chromium conpatatibility.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#495

Post by DaoVeles »

remram wrote: post #364
ethagnawl wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. I just donated to Ladybird and Servo. Here's the Servo link: https://servo.org/sponsorship/

Is there any reason to believe that the Servo project will produce a full independent browser, rather than a browser engine as their website states? The only likely outcome is that it be used in Firefox...

That would be wild to see. Mozilla drops servo to save costs, only to then later pick it up.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#496

Post by DaoVeles »

actionfromafar wrote: post #241
DaoVeles wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean for a long while even the GNU project provided Windows builds for Icecat browser. Probably to much Stallman grumbling. EDIT : Actually they still update it. Last version is 115.

First time I hear about Icecat browser. It seems like something that should be much more known!

Because of the whole culture of GNU/FSF/Stallman, it can be a little funky at times. It has been a while but I think it still comes bundled with LibreJS, an addon that checks every Java script for Libre licensing. And yes it can be disabled.

I get it and I like the idea but it does make for a difficult up front experience.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#497

Post by DaoVeles »

Sammi wrote: post #487
tgv wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, that's uncompiled/jitted. Second: the 80/20 rule.

There are surely to be diminishing returns for sure. Ladybird is clearly improving this fast right now because the devs are picking the low hanging fruit. But we also don't need 100% parity before Ladybird usable. And when users pick it up then it begets more donations and more devs resources, which mean more improvement. So there is reason to be optimistic.

That plus a few of the team have been deeply involved in other browsers. This is nothing new for them.

Doesn't make it certain, but it is a good foundation to be working from.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#498

Post by DaoVeles »

tgv wrote: post #450
jay_kyburz wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HTML only (with forms). Client side css only. No JavaScript. No cookies.

That's not acceptable for 99.9% of the people, so they'll stay on their current browsers. An alternative must be attractive to succeed.

This is where ideals meet ugly reality. Most people cherish convenience over everything else up until the externalities cannot be ignored.

Still a long way to go if that is to happen on the web.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#499

Post by DaoVeles »

bachmeier wrote: post #260
DaoVeles wrote: post #31

So where can I donate to Ladybird browser development? Before anyone tries to respond with it. It is https://donorbox.org/ladybird

How would that solve the problem? Years down the road, if they actually finish their browser, what guarantee do you have against it being enshittified in some way? The only option I see is a project that exists to deshittify an open source browser.

So far the core idea is a sort of constitutional foundation to try and ensure it doesn't get absorbed into that think. Mind you, that was Mozilla 20 years ago.

Short term, deshittify Firefox. Mid term move to some like Lady bird. Long term, if Lady bird is corrupted, start on browser replacement number 2.

Alternatively, the hardest step of just walking away for heavy internet usage I guess.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#500

Post by zzo38computer »

quaintdev wrote: post #133
tgv wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't hold your breath. It takes ages to develop a browser that's as fast as Firefox. CSS and JS are no joke.

Maybe it's time to move away from whole html/css/js, http and browsers? Let's build something that is Ad resistant from the start. Something that uses native technologies. Edit: We need something that does not need backing of large corporations or huge funding to access the web. Internet was always simple. We have become over dependent on browsers and http stack.

Yes. However, different protocols can be used for different purposes, but will need to be FOSS as well as not overly complicated specifications.

Some older protocols such as IRC, NNTP, Gopher, and email (especially plain text email and not HTML email), is one thing to be usable.

There are also some newer protocols and file formats for some uses, e.g.: Gemini protocol/file-format, Scorpion protocol/file-format, Spartan protocol (which uses the same file format as Gemini, although with an extra link type), Nightfall Express (probably the simplest one, although this means that virtual hosting will not be avavilable), and perhaps some others.

(One thing I have read somewhere (I cannot find it now) is three rules for making such a "small web" protocol: (1) Don't make it a subset; (2) Don't make it compatible; (3) Make it better for everyone (authors, readers, programmers, etc). They also discussed separation of "document web" from "application web"; I agree with that too, although of course there is the consideration of how such a separation should be working. I have ideas about this, and I believe my own designs do follow these three rules better than Gemini and Spartan do.)

I had written my own list of what "small web" protocols/file-formats that I am aware of: scorpion://zzo38computer.org/smallweb.txt (which was originally posted to Usenet, although it has been updated since then) One way to access this file would be a command such as:

  echo 'R scorpion://zzo38computer.org/smallweb.txt' | nc zzo38computer.org 1517 | less
(If you have other mirrors of this document, perhaps with your own changes, you could tell me and I could add it to the list of mirrors.)

Another proposal is the following suggestion to make a "small web browser": gemini://xavi.privatedns.org/small-web-browser.gmi (the document I linked above describes how to access this file in case you don't know) I agree with some of the points made but disagree with others; I will comment about some of these points later. (However, you could use some of these ideas for the HTTP/HTML part of a multi-protocol browser.)

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