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For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

heise.de

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Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#451

Post by account42 »

lopis wrote: post #28
eco wrote: post #17

The CTO of Mozilla just posted on /r/firefox about this: https://old.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1e43w7v/a_word_abo...

I think this line is very important: > First, in the absence of alternatives, there are enormous economic incentives for advertisers to try to bypass these countermeasures, leading to a perpetual arms race that we may not win. It's very likely that this arms race will lead to DRM in web publications and video feeds (which Google is already experimenting with).

And that DRM will likely come anyway and restric users of niche browsers like Firefox and operatings systems no matter what Mozilla does - just look how EME implementations and Websites using it treat Linux users not to mention non-x86/ARM architectures. So best is to push back now while we still can instead of giving them an inch.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#452

Post by pndy »

htiawe wrote: post #125
eco wrote: post #17

The CTO of Mozilla just posted on /r/firefox about this: https://old.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1e43w7v/a_word_abo...

Wow, that really was a wall of text. Is it just me that sometimes get the feeling that when companies have to explain them selves with this amoubt of text, they actually know that they are doing something wrong but are trying to cover it up by these long and unnecessary explanations?

> they are doing something wrong but are trying to cover it up

That's what most of folks says in this sub-tree

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#453

Post by yencabulator »

Klonoar wrote: post #144
pdimitar wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's also possible to disable it, it's not like you're trapped in it. Or so they say, in order to make people be OK with it. They might play the waiting game and in a year or two will make the setting not do anything and still collect / send data, hoping that by that time people have forgotten.

There is so much hypothetical-borderline-conspiracy-theory packed in to this single comment that I cannot find a charitable response. I'd be fine to continue the discussion if you can find a way to engage without assuming that the people who build one of the last checks on the open internet are somehow trying to maliciously invade your privacy.

If Firefox was the last check on the open internet, Librewolf wouldn't have to exist.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#454

Post by account42 »

lopis wrote: post #84
rwmj wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> leading to a perpetual arms race that we may not win So we're not even going to try.

This is an attempt to try. You don't win my being an immovable wall going against the biggest corporations. If the W3C manages to create a system that satisfies advertisers while preserving our privacy, that's how you win. There isn't a future where advertising will just disappear. I'm just being pragmatic here, as a user of ad blockers for 15 years.

Except being uncompromising is exactly how free software won. And compromising on EME DRM did not make websites using that DRM any less restricted to popular platforms. Compromise is not a winning move when what you are fighting against is fundamentally unacceptable.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#455

Post by account42 »

awesomeMilou wrote: post #73
doix wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the DRM is coming from Google, I'm sure they'll take that into consideration when designing it. Feels ripe for an anti-trust lawsuit, but IANAL so who knows.

With that logic, wouldn't Widevine DRM already be ripe for an antitrust lawsuit? Genuine question.

It would be if antitrust regulators were not asleep.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#456

Post by marcosdumay »

mort96 wrote: post #215
pacifika wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because browsers can clamp down on The non-anon data streams when there’s a working alternative.

Wait aren't browsers already trying to implement anti-tracking measures? Are you saying Mozilla has been holding back improving anti-tracking for the benefit of advertisers until now? Now that is evil

> Wait aren't browsers already trying to implement anti-tracking measures?

Yes, and trackers are investing large sums of money into breaking those measures.

If you give advertisers a lawful non-user-threatening way to measure their ads performance, a lot of that money may disappear.

(Or it may not, or it may disappear either way. That one market is crazy and I know almost nothing about it. But the claim that the money may disappear is valid, and you have to provide a valid counter-claim if you want to contest it. Calling it evil doesn't cut it.)

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#457

Post by account42 »

remedan wrote: post #142
qwertox wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most users just accept the defaults they’re given, and framing the issue as one of individual responsibility is a great way to mollify savvy users while ensuring that most peoples’ privacy remains compromised. Cookie banners are a good example of where this thinking ends up. The problem we currently have with cookie banners is thanks to the browser vendors not caring about it. An API could exist which a page can qu…

This was already tried with the Do Not Track header. Websites simply ignore it. They don't want an easy way to get the user's preference. Because they know that most users would set it to decline tracking. Sites would rather annoy every visitor for the chance that they click 'accept'.

DNT was before the GDPR. The landscape has changed considerably since then and a standardized opt out signal being enforced is not out of the question.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#458

Post by account42 »

LunaSea wrote: post #311
remedan wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was already tried with the Do Not Track header. Websites simply ignore it. They don't want an easy way to get the user's preference. Because they know that most users would set it to decline tracking. Sites would rather annoy every visitor for the chance that they click 'accept'.

Users also don't want to pay to access content. So I guess that both the user and the site can't get what they want and we should scrap the internet.

There are unpaid sites without ads.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#459

Post by AlexandrB »

eco wrote: post #17

The CTO of Mozilla just posted on /r/firefox about this: https://old.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1e43w7v/a_word_abo...

Maybe I'm cynical, but the rationale given seems extremely naive. There's nothing stopping advertisers from using this new attribution mechanism and tracking users as much as possible. In fact that's probably exactly what they'll do since it's likely that not every browser will support this kind of attribution.

The arms race will continue as it does today, but advertisers will have yet another avenue to exploit in the form of the attribution API.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#460

Post by account42 »

LunaSea wrote: post #386
thoroughburro wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Older folks might remember that there were a lot of people willing to make content free, just out of personal enthusiasm, and that this content was actually a lot higher quality than that pumped out by capitalist motivation. So, actually, users and sites both had what they wanted, just not corporations.

I agree and these people still exist. However not all content can be produced this way, news or sports coverage would be an example.

You get faster and better news coverage from random people on social media than news corporations these days.
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