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For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

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Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#281

Post by lolinder »

david_draco wrote: post #136
latexr wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s clear in retrospect that we should have communicated more on this one What isn’t clear, in retrospect or otherwise, is why companies/apps/services need to keep learning this lesson. The user outcry was utterly predictable from even before the first web article was out. The fact that no one with decision power at Mozilla saw it coming is worrying: either they have zero understanding of people’s concerns for pri…

> What isn’t clear, in retrospect or otherwise, is why companies/apps/services need to keep learning this lesson. They are trying to find a funding model that makes them independent from Google. - Building a fast, privacy-oriented browser that keeps up with web standards and fixes security bugs takes people, organisation and therefore money. Yes, much more than that CEO salary. - No one wants to buy for a browser. -…

Mozilla has tried experiment after experiment to try to earn money. Let's try forcing Pocket down people's throats. Let's automatically install Mr Robot. You know what people will love? Full-page ads for a VPN! No one has seen enough VPN ads!

The one funding model they haven't experimented with at all is actually asking people to pay for Firefox. Donations or subscription, they haven't even tried it once.

And yet people will over and over again insist that that would never work. Doesn't that strike you as odd? They're willing to flail about trying thing after thing after thing that their users hate and yell about and they end up having to pull back, they're willing to burn credibility over and over again, but the one funding model that their users keep telling them they want they refuse to even try on the grounds it would never work.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#282

Post by Retr0id »

eco wrote: post #17

The CTO of Mozilla just posted on /r/firefox about this: https://old.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1e43w7v/a_word_abo...

Wow. This represents a profound misunderstanding of the advertising industry.

Data is their edge. It's how they compete with each other.

The privacy "arms race" isn't just between the browser vendors and the trackers, it's also between tracker a and tracker b.

Giving them a new data point (no matter how """privacy preserving""" it is) is just that, another data point. It's not going to make them give up on the others.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#283

Post by raxxorraxor »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #266
ho_schi wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. One of the things which the FSF did right was the GPL. They didn’t tried like programmers hack against bad things which never works in long term. The bad people will change the API, lock the bootloader, implement a problematic standard (ACPI, SecureBoot) or add more DRM. We cannot solve political issues (law) with technical solutions (programming). If we don’t like locked iPhones, the solution is a law. If we do…

I was with you until secureboot. At least on my Debian I retain full control using the shim and my own enrolled keys. So seems less an issue with the technology but perhaps with how some vendors (that are already locking you in anyway) use secureboot? from https://wiki.debian.org/SecureBoot >> Shim then becomes the root of trust for all the other distro-provided UEFI programs. It embeds a further distro-specific CA k…

Personally I don't get any benefits from secure boot and it is already used to verify the alleged integrity of systems. Not sure how using your own keys would work for remote attestation, it probably wouldn't. Healthy experience with the industry and the market tells me the future if such systems are widely adapted. And that would be a net negative for software freedom that is beyond the security gains, which can be reached through other means as well.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#285

Post by Ensorceled »

mightyham wrote: post #204
3l3ktr4 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And Mozilla leadership is associated with radical left politics, just as an extra. Do you have proof for this? I'd be curious. I also fail to see how is that related to the collecting data by default thing. Is that a leftist thing now?

Whether you agree or disagree with what the Mozilla foundation does, it seems fairly matter of fact to say that they are pursuing liberal policies and that posts from the leadership, like the couple below, employ a good bit of leftist rhetoric. https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/first-steps-toward-lasti... https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/leadership/mozilla-racia...

Pretty much every company has made such statements and policies, including some very much not "leftist" companies.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#286

Post by mananaysiempre »

JonChesterfield wrote: post #40

Firefox mobile also won't let me into about:config. So I guess that's the end. Opera? Other recommendations?

Not Opera, for all that is holy[1].

Fennec[2], the F-Droid build of Firefox, does have about:config enabled.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39816429

[2] https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.mozilla.fennec_fdroid

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#287

Post by chillingeffect »

n_ary wrote: post #157
latexr wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s clear in retrospect that we should have communicated more on this one What isn’t clear, in retrospect or otherwise, is why companies/apps/services need to keep learning this lesson. The user outcry was utterly predictable from even before the first web article was out. The fact that no one with decision power at Mozilla saw it coming is worrying: either they have zero understanding of people’s concerns for pri…

Lets be honest, the number of HNish folks running Firefox is insignificant, compared to number of people using Firefox because their friends recommended it. So even if lets say 1% of the users(HN and similar folks) perform an outcry and go ahead disabling it, the other 99% of the people will still be a huge moat of data. These strategies(though I am willing to give Mozilla the benefit of doubt), had been played out m…

Y tho? I run firefox and chromium side by side all day to isolate personal from work and chromium crashes constantly on a 64GB machine. Chrome uses so much more memory.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#288

Post by closewith »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #114
Klonoar wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that no one with decision power at Mozilla saw it coming is worrying: either they have zero understanding of people’s concerns for privacy or they don’t care. Or the third option: they feel the tradeoff of HN & co's criticism style is not a big deal in the end. Criticism of Mozilla in general is very warranted right now, but the way(s) in which everyone is doing so just feels very out of touch with the act…

> This thread in general feels like it leaves Mozilla no room to experiment or find any form of growth. Mozilla is welcome to experiment. The issue here is: - The default opts the client in instead of the client making that choice to be a Guinea pig in the experiment - I get emails almost weekly that amount to Mozilla playing the role of internet privacy police. They *are* well aware of the rights and wrongs. Are the…

I think the worst part of the funding equation is that had Mozilla stayed on mission and invested it's Google fees wisely, Firefox development could have been indefinitely funded.

Instead, we have had Mozilla sprawling in numerous directions secondary to the browser and failing in nearly all of them.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#289

Post by candiddevmike »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #266
ho_schi wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. One of the things which the FSF did right was the GPL. They didn’t tried like programmers hack against bad things which never works in long term. The bad people will change the API, lock the bootloader, implement a problematic standard (ACPI, SecureBoot) or add more DRM. We cannot solve political issues (law) with technical solutions (programming). If we don’t like locked iPhones, the solution is a law. If we do…

I was with you until secureboot. At least on my Debian I retain full control using the shim and my own enrolled keys. So seems less an issue with the technology but perhaps with how some vendors (that are already locking you in anyway) use secureboot? from https://wiki.debian.org/SecureBoot >> Shim then becomes the root of trust for all the other distro-provided UEFI programs. It embeds a further distro-specific CA k…

In theory the benefits of secureboot around attestation and hashing/measuring of boot components do not require a secure/verifiable chain of custody. You could self verify using PCRs. The boot loader signing aspects were always for control and restricting devices, IMO.
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