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Just Be Rich (2021)

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Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#241

Post by piva00 »

WalterBright wrote: post #63
TrackerFF wrote: post #56

I live in a country with wealth tax (Norway), and I'm a bit conflicted on it. On one side, it is effectively the only real tax a many in the "ownership class" are paying - relative to their wealth. On the other side, it is a really problematic tax for entrepreneurs. It is downright horrible for startups and scaleups - critical funds that should be used to grow your company, has to be given out in dividends to founder…

Sweden, France, California, Washington state and NYC have discovered once again that taxing the heck out of rich people causes them to leave. And when they leave, they take their spend/invest/hire money with them.

Sweden has a large ratio of billionaires relative to the rest of the population, and they aren't leaving. It's 14th in the world by number of billionaires, 7th per capita [0].

Rich people here pay a flat 30% tax on capital gains so they usually pay less taxes relative to their income than a salaried person earning >45-50k SEK.

There's no wealth tax in Sweden.

I don't think you know much about Sweden's tax system (or even in general) given this comment.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of...

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#242

Post by doctor_eval »

WalterBright wrote: post #225
fragmede wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how you can see videos like https://youtu.be/925wmb-4Yr4 of skid row and conclude, y'know what? American Capitalism is the best thing ever and there's no possible way theres anything wrong with it so anybody trying to say that, hey, it's not perfect, is automatically a Stalinism Communist because that's the only way there could remotely be any sort of problems with American Capitalism. There's a ho…

The free market in the US turned the country from subsistence farming to superpower. It's been very successful. A video of skid row doesn't change that. Drunks and drug addicts choose their poor lives.

Allow me to introduce you to the Sackler family.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sackler_family

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#243

Post by piva00 »

WalterBright wrote: post #108
feedforward wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they can still buy stocks on the open market Well that's my point - people who do the work and create the wealth don't get that wealth in wages, it is parasitically expropriated by stockholders. I am arguing on the side of those who work, that the wealth they create is kept by them. You argue for idleness and parasitism - that those who don't do the work can be rewarded via these various mechanisms, by being parasi…

That is the notion that the only value in a business is that of labor, i.e. the labor theory of value. Business needs two other things: 1. capital 2. taking a risk in order to function. To get capital requires a source of capital, which are investors. Investors take a risk in exchange for possible gain. No gain => no investors => no capital => no business Let's say you want to start a business. Where are you going to…

You're just reiterating that capitalism is capitalism. Capital demands a higher possible gain than the labour that is actually creating value to play the game, simply because it is harder to accumulate capital than providing labour, if you have enough capital you can mitigate risks, so why exactly should that risk be compensated more than the actual creation of value provided by labour?

Without capital in this system labour can still provide value, it's harder, and slower but a group of people getting together and creating something is still possible (albeit much slower). Without labour capital has almost no value.

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#244

Post by doctor_eval »

WalterBright wrote: post #178
doctor_eval wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why smart people continue to say this is beyond me. There were so many problems with the USSR - central planning, corruption, bureaucracy, secrecy, misaligned incentives - and it's just not true that everyone was equal. Very few rational people would agree that the USSR is something that we should aspire to. As far as I can tell, "look how well it worked for the USSR" is just a trope that's trotted out by people who…

If you don't like the USSR, provide another example that suits your position. Also, why are the FAANG companies all American companies?

The US has the worst health outcomes in the OECD - in particular for life expectancy, infant mortality, healthcare access, and chronic disease. So if you care about health, “another example” is literally any other OECD country.

And every one of those FAANGs would not exist without ASML, a European company.

You obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. I’m checking out of this thread.

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#245

Post by immibis »

nickpp wrote: post #240
pants2 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically, capital gains tax should be much higher than income tax. That seems obvious to me. Someone working for a paycheck should pay a smaller tax rate than someone who randomly bought NVDA stock a few years ago and watched the number go up.

> capital gains tax should be much higher than income tax Then you would in effect discourage investing. Investing, which creates jobs and promotes innovation. Is as simple as that.

[citation needed]

Consider the opposite extreme, where the government subsidizes investments to 100x what they are actually worth. Would this create more jobs and innovation, or merely "bullshit investments"?

If a subsidy wouldn't create jobs and innovation, a tax wouldn't take them away.

There is also the likely possibility that the same investments would be made, but valued lower.

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#246

Post by throwaway22032 »

soared wrote: post #208
throwaway22032 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not luck. Your grandfather chose your grandmother and so too did your parents. Your parents deciding to do something is not luck either. I want my children to have an inheritance, the actions I take to ensure that are ongoing deliberate choices to build wealth over having fun.

Yes, so it’s completely out of your children’s control whether or not you chose those decisions. Therefore, they are lucky you are doing that. They have zero impact on whether or not the actions of their grandparents resulted in generational wealth.

Nonsense.

You posted this comment 7 hours ago. Current you has zero impact on whether you posted it.

Time flows forwards, not backwards.

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#247

Post by immibis »

WalterBright wrote: post #63
TrackerFF wrote: post #56

I live in a country with wealth tax (Norway), and I'm a bit conflicted on it. On one side, it is effectively the only real tax a many in the "ownership class" are paying - relative to their wealth. On the other side, it is a really problematic tax for entrepreneurs. It is downright horrible for startups and scaleups - critical funds that should be used to grow your company, has to be given out in dividends to founder…

Sweden, France, California, Washington state and NYC have discovered once again that taxing the heck out of rich people causes them to leave. And when they leave, they take their spend/invest/hire money with them.

And what's wrong with that? Regular people, not having to compete with rich people, might actually be able to afford stuff.

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#248

Post by immibis »

RhysU wrote: post #204
eigart wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. To me it looks like a race to the bottom. We have a very nice society, and most people are happy to pay taxes. We also don’t tax rich people more in relative terms, it’s just that it creates a threshold level of wealth where you can choose to move.

> most people are happy to pay taxes Source? I hate paying taxes.

If you live in America, Republicans made it as difficult as possible with the intention of you hating it. If you live in any other country, you simply get less money than you would have otherwise.

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#249

Post by immibis »

roenxi wrote: post #132
para_parolu wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a big problem for country that wealthy people are living? I thought most country wealth comes from oil and gas. And until it’s no longer the case it somewhat makes sense to avoid large wealth gaps.

That argument is a bit circular. It is a bit like saying someone doesn't need to get a law degree until after they've opened a legal firm - there are some obvious cause-effect issues. If there is a tax on wealth, why would we expect there to be local examples of great wealth created that aren't physically extracted from the land? If a Norwegian had a great idea for a new product, presumably they wouldn't be stupid en…

You can't presume that. They might quite enjoy living in Norway. More than they'd enjoy having twice the money, especially when both numbers are high enough to have anything they want.

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#250

Post by duckmysick »

WalterBright wrote: post #178
doctor_eval wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why smart people continue to say this is beyond me. There were so many problems with the USSR - central planning, corruption, bureaucracy, secrecy, misaligned incentives - and it's just not true that everyone was equal. Very few rational people would agree that the USSR is something that we should aspire to. As far as I can tell, "look how well it worked for the USSR" is just a trope that's trotted out by people who…

If you don't like the USSR, provide another example that suits your position. Also, why are the FAANG companies all American companies?

Are you asking why an arbitrary group of American companies, popularized in an American TV show about the American stock market, has only American companies? I don't know. That's a good question. Why didn't they include others like Tencent, Alibaba, TSMC, Samsung, or BYD?

It's like asking why are the Fortune 500 companies all American companies. In contrast, Fortune Global 500, using the same criteria but in a wider pool, has companies from other counties.

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