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Just Be Rich (2021)

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Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#171

Post by sieabahlpark »

dgb23 wrote: post #84
TrackerFF wrote: post #56

I live in a country with wealth tax (Norway), and I'm a bit conflicted on it. On one side, it is effectively the only real tax a many in the "ownership class" are paying - relative to their wealth. On the other side, it is a really problematic tax for entrepreneurs. It is downright horrible for startups and scaleups - critical funds that should be used to grow your company, has to be given out in dividends to founder…

> One natural consequence of this has been that the wealthy people are simply...leaving the country. (our total / combined max wealth tax is 1.1%) I assume that was to be expected. The more interesting question would be: Is this a net gain for Norwegians?

[dead]

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#172

Post by toomuchtodo »

throwaway22032 wrote: post #162
toomuchtodo wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We pretend wealthy people are special when they’re simply lucky. They then use wealth to wield power and control (politics specifically, Citizens United, but I can provide other examples), with a narrative that they are special (not lucky! special!) and that maybe you too can be special and wealthy if you work really hard and are exceptional. Are the wealthy lucky? Yes. Do they use their wealth to shape the world as…

Aside from the influence of money on politics almost all of what you have written is complete bollocks. Many of us have been successful from nothing and know friends who have been more so. There is usually a luck element in the size of that success but it is blindingly obvious to someone who was in the crab bucket to see that actions work. It sounds as if you have an emotional issue with the idea that people can chan…

> It sounds as if you have an emotional issue with the idea that people can change their own situation.

On the contrary, I am simply data informed. It sounds like you're operating from a mental model that overweighs ability in outcomes. I have provided links below to help you improve and evolve this model.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/beautiful-minds/the-... ("The Role of Luck in Life Success Is Far Greater Than We Realized")

https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/03/01/144958/if-youre-... | http://arxiv.org/abs/1802.07068 ("Talent vs. Luck: The Role of Randomness in Success and Failure")

https://ustrustaem.fs.ml.com/content/dam/ust/articles/pdf/20... (2022 Bank of America Private Bank Study of Wealthy Americans: The impact of shifting generational attitudes amid an historic wealth transfer) [Only 27% of the ultra wealthy are self made; 70% of Americans who hold more than $3 million are over 56 years old.]

https://www.financialsamurai.com/your-wealth-is-mostly-due-t... ("Your Outsized Wealth Is Mostly Due To Luck: Be Thankful!")

> And no, parents or grandparents or country or genetics or whatever are not luck either.

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/about/news-room/press-releases-... ("Parental Income Has Outsized Influence on Children’s Economic Future")

https://documents1.worldbank.org/curated/en/7122514681658661... ("Global inequality of opportunity: How much of our income is determined by where we live?")

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-origins-of-menta... | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S000292972... ("Genes Influence Children’s Success, Directly and Indirectly")

> Choosing a suitable mate is about as close to the meaning of life as we have.

~43% of first marriages fail, ~60% of second marriages, ~73% third marriages.

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/divorce/divorce-statist...

Good luck.

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#173

Post by FrustratedMonky »

Terr_ wrote: post #141
FrustratedMonky wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US had same problem with family farms. The farm itself was very valuable, so when being left to the children as inheritance, it was heavily taxed. But, this is a problem, because what is left is not enough for the kids to make a living. So in the act of trying to tax the rich with inheritance, there are some lower/middle layers getting hit very hard. Taxes don't have to be a flat number, there should be exemption…

> The US had same problem with family farms. [...] it was heavily taxed [...] what is left is not enough for the kids to make a living Math or it didn't happen! I say that because I've seen this kind of claim many times, and usually either (A) the Federal Estate Tax has no real affect on what happens or (B) their definition of "family farm" is wildly grandiose. https://www.cbpp.org/blog/the-myth-that-the-estate-tax-t…

I'll find it. I think it was much more a problem in the 70s, after that people started getting smarter about incorporating so it wasn't personal wealth.

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#174

Post by WalterBright »

arrosenberg wrote: post #158
kjksf wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe it's an argument for allowing states to try different economic strategies and compete for business based on outcomes of those strategies. If California taxes people and businesses at insane levels, maybe we shouldn't replicate insane level of taxation everywhere else in U.S., on the off chance that it is not, in fact, an optimal level for generating wealth for the people. Maybe Texas and Florida should be al…

> If California taxes people and businesses at insane levels, maybe we shouldn't replicate insane level of taxation everywhere else in U.S., on the off chance that it is not, in fact, an optimal level for generating wealth for the people. This is nonsense. California is the strongest state in the union economically, with one of the highest quality of life and income per capita. We have an affordability crisis that is…

https://www.statsamerica.org/sip/rank_list.aspx?rank_label=p...

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#175

Post by bko »

TrackerFF wrote: post #56

I live in a country with wealth tax (Norway), and I'm a bit conflicted on it. On one side, it is effectively the only real tax a many in the "ownership class" are paying - relative to their wealth. On the other side, it is a really problematic tax for entrepreneurs. It is downright horrible for startups and scaleups - critical funds that should be used to grow your company, has to be given out in dividends to founder…

A lot of people think wealth is just a large Scrooge-McDuck pile of money sitting in someone's vault and a wealth tax means just sharing some of that money with others. But most wealth is owning and running extremely valuable companies. So taxing someone like Elon 2% or whatever of his 'wealth' per year, would mean some random Blackrock bozo passive investors running the companies after a few years. You're basically preventing him from owning a valuable company. Sure he's still rich, but he can't run Tesla, or any company for that matter.

For someone that actually did something to create a company (replace Elon w/ Bezos, Branson, Jobs, etc), would we be better off with them running the company or a few additional 100s of millions in the coffers of a government that spends $5 trillion a year (less than one hundredths of 1 percent)?

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#176

Post by gjm11 »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #28

> Wealth inequality is just a radical left fairy tale to villainize the hard-working 1%. The problem with that mindset is that we know how it's going to end up: it's not only the 0.1% or 1% that are going to suffer the wealth tax. It's the 30%. At first the "tax on billionaire" was supposed to be that: a tax on billionaires. But then there are already publications explaining how "taxing anyone who has more than a mil…

Could you be more explicit, please, about this "mandatory, EU-wide, tax on all its citizens"? I've had a bit of a search and haven't found anything that seems like it fits your description. No doubt I'm just being dim; could you provide a link or something of the sort?

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#177

Post by FrustratedMonky »

mickael-kerjean wrote: post #142
rahimnathwani wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is special about family farms, that doesn't apply to other family-owned businesses?

your typical business isn't working at the same level of the maslov pyramid than a farm. I don't want a world where only the wealthy can afford to give milk to their kids

I think because farms need to be a certain size to be effective. And, even though they might be worth a lot as real-estate, the land could be worth millions, the people farming could be poor.

Guess, to your point. If a family owns a dry cleaner, similar situation.

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#178

Post by WalterBright »

doctor_eval wrote: post #149
WalterBright wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell us one of them. I'll give an example where everyone was equal. The USSR. That worked out great, right?

Why smart people continue to say this is beyond me. There were so many problems with the USSR - central planning, corruption, bureaucracy, secrecy, misaligned incentives - and it's just not true that everyone was equal. Very few rational people would agree that the USSR is something that we should aspire to. As far as I can tell, "look how well it worked for the USSR" is just a trope that's trotted out by people who…

If you don't like the USSR, provide another example that suits your position.

Also, why are the FAANG companies all American companies?

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#179

Post by WalterBright »

glitchc wrote: post #154
WalterBright wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell us one of them. I'll give an example where everyone was equal. The USSR. That worked out great, right?

I don't think any of the wealth inequality experts are arguing for identical wealth. They want to make sure that all tiers of society maintain social mobility and can participate in the American dream. This generally means preventing various stratas from taking unfair advantage of the system, making it more of a level playing field where we can. It benefits society when a genius born in the slums can make something o…

> Extreme inequality leads to crime, social instability and eventually major civil unrest

Historical example, please.

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#180

Post by skybrian »

WalterBright wrote: post #99
jmward01 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A statement like this probably needs a source or two to first show it is true (wealth taxes actually are causing rich people to flee) second, show that they actually do take their spend/invest/hire money with them and finally that it is harmful that that happens. Leaving creates a vacuum and if the rich really are leaving then it would be a big vacuum that clearly can't be filled with someone else that is rich since…

Jeff Bezos famously left the state just before the Washington's new cap gains tax targeted at him was set to go into effect. I know other people with 8 figure fortunes who left, too. I didn't know it was controversial that spending a lot of money in a local economy makes it more prosperous, and when a big spender leaves, the local economy goes down. The Rust Belt is an example of the latter.

And yet, Microsoft and Amazon are still there. Isn’t that what matters?

I see people moving to other states as a form of load balancing.

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