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The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

tomforth.co.uk

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Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#81

Post by defrost »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #78
defrost wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Maxim saw its heyday in "Africa' (region) which was being carved up by European powers who were marking out countries for European maps and stomping across the borders of pre existing kingdoms. The "Scramble for Africa" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scramble_for_Africa hit peak pitch following 1870 or so and saw 90% of Africa "claimed" by 1914, the Great War and the rise of the Vickers Machine Gun (which evolved…

Also Samoa.

Makes me wonder just how relatively valuable copra and cocoa bean were to the US and Europe if outside resource lust underpinned an eight year civil war way out in the Pacific.

    The Germans, in particular, began to show great commercial interest in the Samoan Islands, especially on the island of Upolu, where German firms monopolised copra and cocoa bean processing.
~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samoa

leading to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samoan_Civil_War

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#82

Post by KingOfCoders »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #74
KingOfCoders wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I can follow that argument. "We can be rich again!" "But the wealth was based on slavery, that is no longer" "Others had slaves too!" Or is it "We can be rich again!" "But the wealth was based on slavery, that is no longer" "Others had slaves(-trade) too, but we were the richest, so I doesn't depend on slaves?" Could you elaborate on your logic?

I mean, I’m also not suggesting they try re-running a cotton economy. > so I doesn't depend on slaves?" One, don’t fake quote others. Two, nobody argued this. American wealth depends on agriculture and energy (and having taken that from our Indians); that doesn’t mean betting on corn and fracking is a good economic plan, or that Argentina is a surefire bet for sharing those same strengths. Regardless of how it was ac…

One, don't attack people but arguments.

I'm not faking quotes, I want to understand your argument about slaves/other people had slaves too/we can be rich again, so I asked if you've meant that. I asked "Or is it:" - which makes it clear this is not a quote.

Your "fake quotes" shows me we have different logic and a different understanding of rhetorical terms, and won't come to any agreement on that basis.

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#83

Post by thebruce87m »

bamboozled wrote: post #30
dmillar wrote: post #8

The UK still has a heavily embedded caste or caste-like social circumstance. Pharma and finance have somewhat eschewed this tradition, but even those industries still have its embedded lords and ladies. Many of their smartest head to the US (or elsewhere), and Brexit has set them back decades from achieving the "richest country" status. A software engineer can double their earnings by moving to the US (if they can ma…

If you think about the times when England was on top, what do you remember about it? They made things, they made really good things. Precision tools, weapons, navy ships, fighter jets, amazing cars, trains, computers. The best tools I've ever used as a woodworker have all been English. I really miss that time hanging out in my grandfathers shed using all his British, American and German hand tools. I sort of lost tra…

“English” and “British” are not interchangeable.

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#85

Post by Nursie »

maest wrote: post #51
ggm wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a Brit and former resident, happy to have emigrated and escaped the >50% (soon to be increased) tax rates. Hah. So you don't believe in the Scandi high-tax economy, or the Dutch one? Resentment of taxation is a perquisite of the rich, overwhelmingly. In fact, most people who are not rich pay reasonable rates of taxation except they pay far more percentage of their income as VAT/consumption taxes, which is of cou…

> they pay far more percentage of their income as VAT/consumption taxes, which is of course nothing like 50% I don't think that's true, unless you assume rich people either a. spend a lower percentage of their income (in which case, what's the point in having money) or b. they avoid VAT when they do spend.

Rich people do spend a smaller proportion of their income. They save and invest more because the pressures of day to day living don’t require them to spend as high a proportion on the essentials of life.

Now, how exactly this translates to VAT when a lot of essentials are zero VAT I’m not sure.

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#86

Post by thebruce87m »

ultimatewhip wrote: post #7
rapidaneurism wrote: post #5

And yet the northern muppets went and voted a Torrie government back in 2019 that took the UK out of the EU, causing a significant damage to the economy in the form of lost GDP. Something about bicycle front wheels and sticks, under the sound of tiny violins.

I think that is a bit unfair. Plenty of people living in cities in the north voted for Labour rather than the Conservatives. In 2019 constintuencies in Bradford and Leeds which were mentioned in the article voted Labour. The same problem exists in the USA where in a red state a county representing a large city votes Democrat but the rural areas or surburban enclaves vote Republican. Take Texas in 2020, Austin, Housto…

Note that Bradford and Leeds are not in the north of the UK. English people will refer to the north of England as “the north” even when talking in the context of the UK.

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#87

Post by csomar »

jasfi wrote: post #47
csomar wrote: post #31

The OP starts with a very wrong comparison; essentially comparing the London area with the American average. A proper comparison will be to compare it against the Washington or NYC metropolitan area. The numbers will be different. Then the article presents no arguments on how the UK can achieve such a feat other than having a bit better public transport. Public transport does certainly help and it’ll increase GDP; bu…

The problem I see is a mindset that doesn't value creators/makers. Why is public transport seen as the problem? Who can't make the next great thing because they can't get from A to B? With remote work that shouldn't even feature on a top 10 list. If you look at the US, there are always complaints about the public transport being way behind the UK/Europe. But they value creators/makers. Why not look to the US, which i…

It's just an advantage. It's not a make or break condition. The US could do better with public transport and will do much worse if the circumstances (easy access to capital and talent) changes.

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#88

Post by mmarian »

dboreham wrote: post #6

The UK is "MBAs eating the world" on steroids, except they're History graduates who went to Eton. Not interested in actually creating anything or making anything. Money can be magically made by...shuffling money around. North Sea oil revenues provided a generation-long cover for this but now that's done. Disclosure: former UK "subject". Oh, and I forgot: allowed their country to become the "host" for Rupert Murdoch w…

> The UK is "MBAs eating the world" on steroids, except they're History graduates who went to Eton

Aren't political leaders from most democracies from an elite background?

> Money can be magically made by...shuffling money around

I assume you're referring to UK's financial sector. What's wrong with it being one of the leading drivers of the economy? It's not as if manufacturing pays well in a high cost-of-living country.

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#89

Post by c7THEC2DDFVV2V »

thebruce87m wrote: post #83
bamboozled wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think about the times when England was on top, what do you remember about it? They made things, they made really good things. Precision tools, weapons, navy ships, fighter jets, amazing cars, trains, computers. The best tools I've ever used as a woodworker have all been English. I really miss that time hanging out in my grandfathers shed using all his British, American and German hand tools. I sort of lost tra…

“English” and “British” are not interchangeable.

depends who you're speaking to.

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#90

Post by c7THEC2DDFVV2V »

throwup238 wrote: post #22
zwnow wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think we are generally happier? Europe is experiencing a right wing shift due to people being unhappy. The coming years won't be good for any of us to be honest.

The UK experienced that same right wing shift 14 years ago and is now dealing with the fallout. Europe is still in its honeymoon phase with the latest batch of right wing demagogues.

death of left was with new labour. That was the _real_ shift to the right.
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