The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world • Hacker News Board

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#71

Post by JumpCrisscross » Wed, Jul 10, 2024, 5:45 AM UTC

jasfi wrote: post #66

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are always complaints about the public transport being way behind the UK/Europe. But they value creators/makers Those creators cluster around urban centres with good transport. You can’t remote found a battery plant. I doubt Britain’s salvation is in public transport alone. But remote work doesn’t obviate the need for human infrastructure. (At the very least, it hasn’t been demonstrated at scale.)

Better infrastructure is always a good thing, but I don't see it as a limiting factor. A battery plant is an example of where you need decent infrastructure, that's all. Software is eating the world, that's the industry I'm thinking of.

> Software is eating the world, that's the industry I'm thinking of

Sure. Yet we aren’t seeing a wave of remote-only upstarts pressing their cost and recruiting advantage. (We are seeing massive agglomeration effects in the Bay Area.)

Remember that “software is eating the world” is a quip by a then-financier, no longer coder [1].

[1] https://a16z.com/why-software-is-eating-the-world/

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#72

Post by KingOfCoders » Wed, Jul 10, 2024, 5:47 AM UTC

Arn_Thor wrote: post #70

KingOfCoders wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The East India Company is from 1600. The Watt Steam Engine is from 1765.

So what? My point is that the two processes were interlinked and fed off each other. The industrial revolution was helped by empire. But the fact that it took place in the UK helped it expand and deepen that very empire faster than the competition. The Maxim Gun, at the bleeding edge of technology in 1884, was made in London and helped Britain subjugate African countries and nudge out other imperial powers.

You seem to be more knowledgeable, do you think the Maxim Gun kept the empire or expanded it? If so, into which countries do you think the Maxim Gun helped to expand?

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#73

Post by defrost » Wed, Jul 10, 2024, 5:49 AM UTC

Arn_Thor wrote: post #70

KingOfCoders wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The East India Company is from 1600. The Watt Steam Engine is from 1765.

So what? My point is that the two processes were interlinked and fed off each other. The industrial revolution was helped by empire. But the fact that it took place in the UK helped it expand and deepen that very empire faster than the competition. The Maxim Gun, at the bleeding edge of technology in 1884, was made in London and helped Britain subjugate African countries and nudge out other imperial powers.

Let's not forget FinTech and Lawfare evolving in parallel here either.

Stock Exchanges evolved from Dutch and London Coffee Houses and the Maxim Gun is also famous in cementing the "No Compete" clause into law ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordenfelt_v_Maxim_Nordenfelt_...

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#74

Post by JumpCrisscross » Wed, Jul 10, 2024, 5:49 AM UTC

KingOfCoders wrote: post #59

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, plenty of civilisations across history had slaves, and many of Britain’s contemporaries did too.

Not sure I can follow that argument. "We can be rich again!" "But the wealth was based on slavery, that is no longer" "Others had slaves too!" Or is it "We can be rich again!" "But the wealth was based on slavery, that is no longer" "Others had slaves(-trade) too, but we were the richest, so I doesn't depend on slaves?" Could you elaborate on your logic?

I mean, I’m also not suggesting they try re-running a cotton economy.

> so I doesn't depend on slaves?"

One, don’t fake quote others. Two, nobody argued this. American wealth depends on agriculture and energy (and having taken that from our Indians); that doesn’t mean betting on corn and fracking is a good economic plan, or that Argentina is a surefire bet for sharing those same strengths.

Regardless of how it was acquired, Britain sits of a massive pool of capital. That capital gives it opportunities others cannot access. The argument from its previous prowess is not one for returning to colonialism, but for the existence of the social and economic infrastructure for commanding production past what you’d expect from its population in the way America, China, Japan and Germany do. (Economies Nos. 1 through 4. And yes, we see the same common histories in the set.)

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#75

Post by JumpCrisscross » Wed, Jul 10, 2024, 5:55 AM UTC

defrost wrote: post #73

Arn_Thor wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what? My point is that the two processes were interlinked and fed off each other. The industrial revolution was helped by empire. But the fact that it took place in the UK helped it expand and deepen that very empire faster than the competition. The Maxim Gun, at the bleeding edge of technology in 1884, was made in London and helped Britain subjugate African countries and nudge out other imperial powers.

Let's not forget FinTech and Lawfare evolving in parallel here either. Stock Exchanges evolved from Dutch and London Coffee Houses and the Maxim Gun is also famous in cementing the "No Compete" clause into law ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordenfelt_v_Maxim_Nordenfelt_...

> the Maxim Gun is also famous in cementing the "No Compete" clause into law

Nordenfelt cemented severavility; non-competes were already commonplace. (In that case, the blue pencil was used to restrict the scope of the non-compete. But that’s not why it’s important.)

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#76

Post by defrost » Wed, Jul 10, 2024, 5:56 AM UTC

KingOfCoders wrote: post #72

Arn_Thor wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what? My point is that the two processes were interlinked and fed off each other. The industrial revolution was helped by empire. But the fact that it took place in the UK helped it expand and deepen that very empire faster than the competition. The Maxim Gun, at the bleeding edge of technology in 1884, was made in London and helped Britain subjugate African countries and nudge out other imperial powers.

You seem to be more knowledgeable, do you think the Maxim Gun kept the empire or expanded it? If so, into which countries do you think the Maxim Gun helped to expand?

The Maxim saw its heyday in "Africa' (region) which was being carved up by European powers who were marking out countries for European maps and stomping across the borders of pre existing kingdoms.

The "Scramble for Africa" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scramble_for_Africa

hit peak pitch following 1870 or so and saw 90% of Africa "claimed" by 1914, the Great War and the rise of the Vickers Machine Gun (which evolved from the Maxim).

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#77

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 10, 2024, 5:57 AM UTC

KingOfCoders wrote: post #72

Arn_Thor wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what? My point is that the two processes were interlinked and fed off each other. The industrial revolution was helped by empire. But the fact that it took place in the UK helped it expand and deepen that very empire faster than the competition. The Maxim Gun, at the bleeding edge of technology in 1884, was made in London and helped Britain subjugate African countries and nudge out other imperial powers.

You seem to be more knowledgeable, do you think the Maxim Gun kept the empire or expanded it? If so, into which countries do you think the Maxim Gun helped to expand?

[deleted]

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#78

Post by JumpCrisscross » Wed, Jul 10, 2024, 5:57 AM UTC

defrost wrote: post #76

KingOfCoders wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be more knowledgeable, do you think the Maxim Gun kept the empire or expanded it? If so, into which countries do you think the Maxim Gun helped to expand?

The Maxim saw its heyday in "Africa' (region) which was being carved up by European powers who were marking out countries for European maps and stomping across the borders of pre existing kingdoms. The "Scramble for Africa" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scramble_for_Africa hit peak pitch following 1870 or so and saw 90% of Africa "claimed" by 1914, the Great War and the rise of the Vickers Machine Gun (which evolved…

Also Samoa.

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#79

Post by defrost » Wed, Jul 10, 2024, 5:58 AM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #75

defrost wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not forget FinTech and Lawfare evolving in parallel here either. Stock Exchanges evolved from Dutch and London Coffee Houses and the Maxim Gun is also famous in cementing the "No Compete" clause into law ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordenfelt_v_Maxim_Nordenfelt_...

> the Maxim Gun is also famous in cementing the "No Compete" clause into law Nordenfelt cemented severavility; non-competes were already commonplace. (In that case, the blue pencil was used to restrict the scope of the non-compete. But that’s not why it’s important.)

I'll pay that, it sounds as if you're across the history and evolution of Lawfare which was a main thrust of my comment - a number of strands developed alongside colonialism and industrialisation.

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#80

Post by maxglute » Wed, Jul 10, 2024, 6:02 AM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #43

csomar wrote: post #31

The OP starts with a very wrong comparison; essentially comparing the London area with the American average. A proper comparison will be to compare it against the Washington or NYC metropolitan area. The numbers will be different. Then the article presents no arguments on how the UK can achieve such a feat other than having a bit better public transport. Public transport does certainly help and it’ll increase GDP; bu…

> Public transport does certainly help and it’ll increase GDP; but I highly doubt it’s the determinant in creating the richest country per capita in the world The UK is geographically blessed. That hasn’t been an advantage recently, because the EU seemed to be working, but Alexander Hamilton’s arguments against loose political unions seem prescient as ever amidst Europe’s present rightwing lurch [1]. If Britain can g…

What "high-value supply chain elements" were you thinking? Singapore as 1/12th the population of UK, it's easier for them to specialize in finance and a few high value manufacturing sectors and be wealthy per capita. An island of 67m people is going to have a hard time competing against europe with ~400m in half the size of US that can be networked together by rail/truck. I don't think EU is going to let UK challenge port of rotterdam and eat away at continental bloc logistic advantages. I also don't think US is going to throw many opportunities at UK when they need to keep east asian partners fed, after what US wants to reshore in NA for herself. IMO not much high-value scraps left.